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Energy with Seesaw system

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by vikram_gupta11, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. vikram_gupta11

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    In this sketch you will find that I have attached 10 shake flashlights(coil+magnet system) on the both side of a balanced seesaw system and this seesaw is moving with a motor but I have used 10 no. shake flashlights . If we try this concept than input is more than output but if we add total output then it is greater than input.These flashlights or coil+magnet system will be mounted permanently in horizontal direction and this seesaw will move side by side.

    please answer me that will these flashlights will be light up or not as mass is not an issue in this device.
    Note(1)each flashlight is separate with another flashlight .
    (2)to move a balanced seesaw there is need of less energy or input




    The design is simple and there is nothing complex to understand the design .suppose there is a BEAM which is in equilibrium position and 10 no. coil+magnet system or (flashlights) permanently attached on it horizontally and we are turning this seesaw side by side towards 2 to 3 centimeter.you can imagine its function very easily.

    To turn a 4 kilogram (including mass of flashlights) balanced seesaw in 3 centimeter(thrice a second) there is need of only .36 newton force using f+ma equation ,there fore I say that mass is not a big issue in this design even we can reduce it upto 50%more but the main issue is sliding of magnet to move pass the coil. Suppose a coil+ magnets system require 10 watt to shake so that it could counter the Lenz's law then this 10 watt + .36 watt(newton)+ .50(watt) = 11 watt will be sufficient to shake all 10 no. flashlights or coil+magnet system.if a coil +magnet system 's output is only 5 watt then we can get 50 watt out put with these total 10 no. coil+ magnet systems and input will be only 11 watt.That's what I want to say.
    furthermore if we replace coil+magnets with 10 people then these ten people will move or turn when we will shake or turn the arm of seesaw.
    when this 11 watt force will applied on the arm of seesaw then every coil+magnet system will work as this 11 watt will be equally distribute in all these coil+magnet system.

    if mass is equal then F=a and its mean that the force applied on seesaw will be distributed equally or in other words all flashlights will be accelerated equally.Thus each flashlight will generate energy and output will be greater than input.

    Note: we are turning the corner of seesaw so total system will be turned .
    we are applying input energy but this will be distributed equally to shake all 10 coil+magnet system.
    There is no need of applying 10 times force as only one time force will be sufficient to shake the total 10 no. flashlights.
     

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    • Funny x 1
  2. vikram_gupta11

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    I Took a Rubber band and try to stretched it with my hands and it was stretched .Now I took the help of an another person to catch this stretched rubber band in middle with the help of fingers .after that I released the right part of the rubber band but I didn’t release the left part of the rubber band ( still in stretched position) only released the right part .when I released the right part of the rubber band then the person felt a propelling force working on pushing his fingers in left direction of stretched rubber band.

    suppose a person is standing up on a roller skate applying equal force with both hands to stretch the springs and these springs are attached with this skate . the roller skate is stable but when thIs person release ONLY the right hand side sprIng then the roller skate should move or not.REMEMBER PERSON IS RELEASING ONLY RIGHT SIDE SPRING BUT LEFT SIDE SPRING IS STILL IN STRETCHED POSITION.


    MECHANISM:There will be two part of this engine.

    The first part will move freely in a cylindrical tube but second part will be stable.
    Two motors will be fixed in this engine as per the diagram. The (1) motor will work to press the first part towards the front side while (2) motor will work to press the second part towards backside. Two lever system will be attached with each motor.These levers will work to press their side springs when both motors will move.
    There will be Pull Back system attached in the first part of this engine. This pull back system will work to get back the first part of this engine on its position with the help of a motor and electromagnets. Two magnetic brackets will be attached with first part as per the diagram and springs of first part’s will be attached with a magnetic system. This engine will get energy with solar panels.

    HOW WILL THIS ENGINE WORK?

    When both lever systems will work to press their side springs then a kinetic force will create on both springs.
    when the (1) lever will press the spring of first part then the spring get stretch due to pressure and at a point of pressure this part will be detached with its side magnets and will move towards front side due to kinetic force. But in second part of the device when (2) lever will press the spring towards backside then spring will work to push this device towards front side after removing lever pressure.

    In this way both parts of this device will help to push forward this device. The magnetic bracket will work to catch this first part so that this part couldn’t move with back force, otherwise this engine will move towards backside due to back force.

    The pull back system will work to attach this first part with the help of electromagnets.The first part will be detached with magnetic brackets when pull back system will work on this part with electromagnets then the springs of this part will be attached with their side magnets again and pull back system will be detached.

    BOTH LEVERS WILL WORK AT THE SAME TIME WITH EQUAL FORCE IN THIS ENGINE.

    The first part of this device will get back its position again and both parts’ levers systems will be ready to work on their side springs again and again.
     

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  3. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    This particular brand of junk science is called "internal thrust" and it doesn't work because of EQUAL and opposite.

    Read up on Newton's Third law.
     
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  4. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Gupta: you need to review basic principles of physics. Your idea will not do what you think it will do.
     
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  5. vikram_gupta11

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    can you please explain with some example as I explained it using rubber band and roller skate and I also would like to know if this Idea works on the Earth ,should it work in space also?
     
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  6. ccutrer

    ccutrer Member

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    No, it will not work in space. The reason it "works" on earth is that you use the ground as a counter-force to stretch the band (yes, even when you're wearing roller skates. There is still friction and pushing going on, even if it seems minimal). If you are completely floating, all you can do internally is change your center of gravity, which might wobble you around, but cannot actually displace you.
     
  7. vikram_gupta11

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    Dear Sir,

    sorry, but I'm not convinced because if two equal and opposite forces are working on a object at same time then there is no need of any ground or medium and I'm preparing a working model to test it and have got initial success So I think it will work and what 's your views on the above mentioned rubber band experiment.
     
  8. SR22pilot

    SR22pilot Member

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    Consider what happens in space with a rocket. If you enclose both the rocket and the exhaust gas and add up the momentum you get to zero. In other words, the momentum of the exhaust gas going one way equals the momentum of the rocket going the other. You have a closed system. The net momentum change will be zero.
     
  9. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    #9 JeffK, Oct 9, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
    I can't help but to think this is an elaborate joke... even with the drawing and everything.

    You might wish to watch some youtube videos on the physics of rubber bands and springs. It might help you get a better grasp of what's going on. You absolutely cannot use it as a propulsion mechanism.

    F = m * a
    Consider shooting a bullet out of a gun... given that there must be an equal force in the opposite direction, the shooter does not get hurt because the gun has a much greater mass than the bullet and therefore less acceleration needed for the same force.

    Look here's a spring in space


    Here's another one of newton's laws demonstrated, included for coolness factor

     
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  10. swaltner

    swaltner Member

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    The reason you got a Funny vote is that you're describing a perpetual motion or over unity device. You can't arrange objects including the magnets inside a shake flashlight in any way that you can get more energy out of the system that you put into the system. Every conversion of energy loses some energy to heat (wasted energy). The more steps the more losses.

    You propose

    ?electric? energy -> motor -> kinetic energy in seesaw -> magnet/coil in flashlight -> electric energy -> lightbulb

    You would use much less energy to simply hook the lightbulb up to the original energy source that would power the motor:

    Electric energy -> lightbulb

    Don't be surprised if you don't get much response on this. Other than the alternators thread, I think most are ignored. Just explaining the reasoning.
     
  11. vikram_gupta11

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    It is very much clear that you have not understood this concept perfectly or what I want to say.

    can you glow up 10 flashlight with a single force equal to glow up a single flashlight.No because you will have to apply 10 time more force to glow up these flashlights,but in this design this is possible .we can glow up 10 flashlight with the force of equal to glow up a single flashlight.There will be no need of applying 10 time force to glow up these 10 numbered flashlights.That's all I want to say.
     
  12. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Member

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    Please keep in mind that these forums can be read by anyone on the Internet and not just by the honorable members of the Tesla Motors Club (TMC). As such, there may be nefarious lurkers who stalk various leading edge technology forums (such as this one) trolling for and then misappropriating the fantastical inventions dreamt up by creative minds unfettered by the tyranny of scientific constraints. Ideas may be worth untold wealth to those who can claim authorship and demonstrate feasibility. Even if your motivation is humanitarian rather personal financial gain, you should take precautions to protect your creations by keeping them to yourself and guarding them diligently. They are the offspring of your mind and you need to look after them as if they are your own children. First and foremost, it would be prudent to stop posting your ideas, especially in such great detail and with illustrations, on this public forum until you've secured international patents on them. Wishing you success and good fortune.
     
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  13. vikram_gupta11

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    Dear Sir,
    Thank you very much for your advice .I can prove it and build it in a day but the main problem is I don't have technical sources to build it .If someone could provide me some support then I can build it and prove it.
     
  14. vikram_gupta11

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    Dear Sir,
    Thank you very much for your advice .I can prove it and build it in a day but the main problem is I don't have technical sources to build it .If someone could provide me some support then I can build it and prove it.
     
  15. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    Try building a small model that will work in water first, this will show you right away if it can be used as a mechanism for propulsion. adjust the buoyancy so it neither floats or sinks

    You might find it just oscillates back and forth in place and doesn't propel the device at all. Be careful not to push water as propulsive force this will skew your results... as a matter of fact it might be best to enclose the device in a sealed container.

    You can pick up an arduino, some electric motors, springs, and magnets either on amazon or a local retailer. The cost will not be terrible and the skill level required would be rather minimal. Your deep space design can be built by a kid in a middle school science fair using the above listed parts, don't worry about the solar panels at the moment, just use batteries. From start to finish this should take you less than two weeks if you have basic programming skills and can figure out how to use the PWM output from an arduino to control motors. Seal it up and make it water tight and put it in a tub of water. It'll either move or it won't.
     
  16. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    Let me address your seesaw idea...
    First the flashlights are facing the wrong direction, they must face toward or away from the fulcrum they cannot be parallel to it. If you've ever used a shake flashlight then you'll know what I'm talking about.

    With electromagnetic induction, the velocity at which magnet moves is directly proportional to the voltage induced so you have to be doing this very quickly. Second and more importantly when you calculate the force required you are totally forgetting force due to gravity and electrical losses in the system.

    If each coil system requires 10 watts then you must supply 100 watts minimum to the system in addition to the power required to move the seesaw. If they output 5 watts each then you're max theoretical output is 50 watts meaning that since you had to supply 100+ Watts your efficiency is less than 50% so your system would stop working immediately you supplied 100 percent of the power and charged the capacitors only a single time. They would not have enough power for another cycle unless you added more power to the system.
     
  17. vikram_gupta11

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    Dear sir,
    you have taken it this device function in wrong direction .There is no need of 100+ watt power as 10+ watt power will be distributed equally in all these 10 flashlights so input is just 10 +watt and output will be 50 watt ,otherwise whats the benefit of taking seesaw system ? The benefit of this system is that it will work to multiply the force equally in all flashlights or all 10 numbered flashlights will be shaked equally but remember each flashlight is a separate circuit so the output will be separate ..GETTING EQUAL INPUT AND PRODUCED OUTPUT SEPARATELY.
     
  18. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    #18 JeffK, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
    This is not physically possible unfortunately...

    Consider this, if I have a Tesla Model S P100D with a full charge can I use it to push ten P100s with only enough charge to allow regen braking at the same time and thus charge up all ten P100s? No, of course not.

    Think conservation of energy: the input MUST equal the output (whether electrical, heat, etc)

    Here's a good one for you
    Introduction to work and energy
    (watch all the videos)
     
  19. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    Were there 2 threads here that got merged? I didn't see the first one (the over-unity) previously, only the internal thrust one.

    I've never thought that over-unity was possible, but I am sad to admit, I once thought internal thrust was possible. Of course then I turned 6 and started going to school were they promptly crushed all my hopes and dreams.

    I cry conspiracy! Or... umm... physics... same difference.
     

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