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Enhanced Autopilot after V9 update

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by cusman, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. cusman

    cusman Member

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    Quick demonstration video (< 1 minute) showing how well Tesla Model 3’s Enhanced Autopilot feature works after V9 software update. This is a car that will keep getting better.



    Granted, I have not tried Cadillac's Super Cruise, but I just don't buy that a system that only works on specific stretches of highway is better (according to Consumer Reports Automated Systems Ranking) than what Tesla is doing with Enhanced Autopilot (even before V9) and now after V9 a huge leap ahead.

    Anybody here that has tried both that considers Cadillac's Super Cruise to be better?
     
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  2. woodisgood

    woodisgood It's walnut, beech

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    Thanks for the video. Are you able to tell us what would have been different prior to v9 on that specific road?
     
  3. cusman

    cusman Member

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    #3 cusman, Oct 14, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
    Before the V9 update, it was not safe to try using Enhanced Autopilot on those sharp curves (that require speed to be lowered from ~40 to closer to ~25). The car wouldn't slow down like it should and would disengage autopilot as the need to start slowing and turning would get to last possible moment or maybe I was taking over because it got past my comfort point. I don't remember exactly, but I do know it couldn't do that particular sharp double turn while staying in Enhanced Autopilot before the V9 update.
     
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  4. ftlum

    ftlum Member

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    #4 ftlum, Oct 14, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
    Consumer reports rated systems higher if they emphasized forcing the driver to pay attention and if the systems didn’t push their own boundaries (presuming it’s a safer approach). They therefore gave bonus points to Cadillac which only can operate on mapped roads, even though Tesla’s approach is more versatile. They actually are ranking perceived safety over technological capability, and this point is lost when media outlets post who has the highest rank. CR also doesn’t say which version of EAP they were using, though with their ranking approach, it won’t make a difference in the short term.

     
  5. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    FWIW the last time I test drove Super Cruise in the bay area, even on stretches of interstate that have sharper curves, the system would hand back control.

    It's not even just whitelisted types of roads, it's segments of said roads too.
     
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  6. PhaseWhite

    PhaseWhite Member

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    I think the proof in which system is better will be customer demand. Customers generally are not asking for the same things that Consumer Reports think makes the best system.

    Their review didn't include any sort of quantitative information that I could tell. I'd like to see a real review of SuperCruise vs Autopilot on winding roads, in busy traffic measuring things like position in lane, turning degree, response to traffic.

    Auto Lane Change in V9 is definitely next level now with the ability to detect cars in the blindspot and position the car into the lane, if that means slowing down or accelerating.

    The new Nav on Autopilot it will be the only thing of it's kind in a consumer vehicle and I'm super excited to get my hands on it once Tesla has a chance to work out the kinks.

    There is no other automaker deploying these types of autonomous capabilities in their consumer vehicles.
     
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  7. djb2942

    djb2942 Member

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    Where is this in a commercial application?
     
  8. cusman

    cusman Member

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    Cadilac's Super Cruise cannot function outside of pre-approved segments of some specific highway roads. In my view, it is the weakest advanced Autopilot of the bunch reviewed by Consumer Reports.

    Tesla has the most advanced Enhanced Autopilot equivalent available to mass consumers and Waymo has the most advanced FSD vehicles driving around validating their proof of concept on the roadways in AZ soon to be turned into a Taxi service.

    Many other companies are in this race to have more advanced Autopilot than just Adaptive Cruise Control and same for FSD, but for now the real leaders actually on the road in production vehicles are Tesla and Waymo.
     
  9. MaryAnning3

    MaryAnning3 Supporting Member

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    Does Tesla use road mapping to assist the autopilot on well traveled roads such as 101 or 5 in California? Is it it a problem to incorporate road mapping into a system that can work on unmapped roads?
     
  10. MaryAnning3

    MaryAnning3 Supporting Member

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    There are some well known lane splits and left merges and exits in central California. I imagine that Tesla has a lot of data on those. Is that data and knowledge of difficult locations incorporated in some way?
     
  11. cusman

    cusman Member

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    Per my knowledge, anytime Elon / Tesla has talked about their Enhanced Autopilot / Autonomous driving technology they are clear to point out that they are not relying on micro-mapping or anything other than just improving the sensors, processing hardware, and AI software.

    All the others in the space (including Waymo / Google) are using micro-mapping dependent solutions so their vehicles can only operate autonomously on micro-mapped road surfaces.
     
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  12. cusman

    cusman Member

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    Here is what I read in the recent Recode Decode Interview with Elon Musk

    "Yeah, that’s hopeless. That would, at best, be a specialized solution, and whatever city puts stuff in roads ... You can always make something work for a specific solution, like some special-case solution in some town, you can make that easy, but what you really want is a general solution for self-driving that works worldwide."

    Source: Full Q&A: Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk on Recode Decode

    My interpretation of how Elon / Tesla talk about it, is they want to use only Camera technology along with Artificial Intelligence. No other map data, road sensors, or anything else to help cars find paths and avoid issues.
     
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  13. MaryAnning3

    MaryAnning3 Supporting Member

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    Thank you Cusman
     
  14. d21mike

    d21mike Active Member

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    That was my thought as well. But I wonder what is in the New Maps that was required before we could use Navigate on Autopilot?
     
  15. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    Most likely metadata about exits (e.g. which lanes exit, which fork to take, which lanes merge together, how long is the on-ramp, etc).

    I think Elon was contrasting this to basically cheating by recording a car driving in extremely high resolution and just playing back that set of actions.

    When I was an undergrad I worked on such a project, and it literally invented placing pac-man dots every 10ft or so, and the planner is simply driving from dot to dot with basic detection of “make sure you have a clear path to the next dot before you start moving”.

    Even humans rely on “maps” of sorts to drive correctly, whether you consider that to be your prior memory or something else.
     
  16. cusman

    cusman Member

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    Tesla Autopilot will use map data to plan route and uses the LTE for live traffic data to influence path finding decisions. The maps update is from Google Maps so that the LTE use is more limited and not depended on. The LTE on Tesla is from AT&T and not high-bandwidth (more like 3G speeds) regardless of what the equipment is capable of doing.

    The driving itself, will rely on the 8 cameras and radar sensors along with compute / AI processing to make real-time decisions.

    One reason LTE was included in all Tesla (free) is it gave users a choice to share data to help the AI learn faster. The more people that are driving around and contributing driving data (on and off autopilot) the more data Tesla is ingesting that continue to influence how its driving AI learns how to handle different situations real life drivers encounter.

    Once it had enough people, it removed the free life-time connectivity for new adopters and put in a 1-year free. Eventually when the 35k Model 3 becomes available, no LTE will be included and it will only be available as an add-on subscription.
     
  17. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    They’ll certainly keep in the LTE radio, just not let you to have any benefit from it without paying. But in terms of collecting fleet telemetry, nothing stops them from being able to do that while upcharging for the customer to access anything over LTE.
     
  18. d21mike

    d21mike Active Member

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    I understand what you are saying but it still does not explain why they required New Maps to use Navigate on Autopilot. As you know before NoA Tesla still had navigation and allow us to use it and it also used LTE for live traffic. Just wonder what was in the New Maps that was required for NoA. Anyway, this is not a big deal. They needed it for something and I now have it so all good.
     
  19. cusman

    cusman Member

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    Pretty sure I went through screens when I first got my Tesla Model 3 where I agreed to share data. I believe the option is there somewhere to revoke that approval. I believe whether or not information is shared is still an option that owners can opt in or out of.

    For people without LTE connection, opting in / out of that wouldn't matter until they can connect to either WiFi or add subscription service to add LTE.
     
  20. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    Yeah, you can indeed do 2 levels of opting out: First, in the “privacy” settings within the car, you can opt out of video clip and road measurement collection. Second, the big hammer is you can call Tesla to completely opt out of their data collection policy, which I don’t know if anyone has tried yet.... but it is hinted to opt you out of software updates, remote diagnostics, remote access to your car, etc etc etc (basically turn it into a dumb car).

    But at any rate, all I’m saying is, Tesla can still structure their software in a way such that they can collect the data they want over LTE without giving the customer any LTE benefits (whether it’s updates or music streaming or maps).
     

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