Enhanced Summon, where are you?

[Daniel in SD]

Where are you getting this? It's widely accepted in the industry that ultrasonics are suitable to prevent collisions at low speeds. (~5-10mph)

I'm excited for enhanced summon, although I think its a gimmick with nearly no practical usability, especially when it first launches.

I have many concerns for it.... crashing into objects is not one of them

And of course there are situations where the object is above the sensors like this: Tesla Autopilot Fender Bender - Streamable
From the videos posted it looks to me like not running into things is their primary concern right now.

 

[RDoc]

Where are you getting this? It's widely accepted in the industry that ultrasonics are suitable to prevent collisions at low speeds. (~5-10mph)

Could you supply some references for that assertion?
On our car it misses nearby curbs > 90% of the time. Even if it's detected the curb previously, when it gets closer and the beam goes over the curb it either shows nothing or the distance to a further object. It's particularly bad on curbs as it approaches from an angle. Consider the case of the car turning around a parked car when there was a low object in it's path after making the turn. I'm pretty sure the current system would miss detecting it quite often.
More than a few times it hasn't detected sign posts as well when backing up towards them.
IMHO relying on anything like the current ultrasonics for autonomous navigation is far to dangerous for release.

 

[EVNow]

IMHO relying on anything like the current ultrasonics for autonomous navigation is far to dangerous for release.

I'm guessing it will detect people.

Low objects are difficult for people too. Tire brushing the curb is quite common for people as well, for eg.

 

[electronblue]

Where are you getting this? It's widely accepted in the industry that ultrasonics are suitable to prevent collisions at low speeds. (~5-10mph)

I'm excited for enhanced summon, although I think its a gimmick with nearly no practical usability, especially when it first launches.

I have many concerns for it.... crashing into objects is not one of them

There is a group of obstacles ultrasonics are not suited for detecting, such as certain types of thin poles and pole-like structures. Whether or not Tesla might be able to mitigate these usual concers is unknown of course.

 

[RDoc]

I'm guessing it will detect people.

Low objects are difficult for people too. Tire brushing the curb is quite common for people as well, for eg.

I'm guessing it would definitely not detect someone, particularly a child, lying down less than about 10 feet in front of the car. Or an animal, or a toy, or a piece of scrap metal, etc.. People are quite good at seeing and avoiding all of those. Based on what our car does, it might detect the obstacle from further out, but then, as it got closer, lose it and just ignore the fact it had ever seen it.

The main reason tires brush curbs is because the side vision from the driver's seat to the side normally parked on is non-existent on most cars. The better comparison is how often people hit curbs in front of them when pulling into a parking space.

 

[banned-66611]

The main reason tires brush curbs is because the side vision from the driver's seat to the side normally parked on is non-existent on most cars. The better comparison is how often people hit curbs in front of them when pulling into a parking space.

Humans have a sense of where things are even when they can't see them. For example, most people can learn to touch type, moving their hands in intricate patterns without having to look at them.

Same with cars in car parks. They see the curb from a distance and even when they lose sight of it as they get nearer they know more or less where it is. Some FSD manufacturers are replicating that by building a 3D model of the world, but there is no evidence so far that Tesla is doing that. Their system seems to be purely reactive to what it can see in the moment.

 

[RDoc]

Humans have a sense of where things are even when they can't see them. For example, most people can learn to touch type, moving their hands in intricate patterns without having to look at them.

Same with cars in car parks. They see the curb from a distance and even when they lose sight of it as they get nearer they know more or less where it is. Some FSD manufacturers are replicating that by building a 3D model of the world, but there is no evidence so far that Tesla is doing that. Their system seems to be purely reactive to what it can see in the moment.

Yes, that lack of world modeling IMHO is a fatal architectural flaw in what we've seen so far.

 

[emmz0r]

Yes, that lack of world modeling IMHO is a fatal architectural flaw in what we've seen so far.

They have to model it in 3d in order for everything to work. The question is if they cache or keep the model for later use in the area

 

[willow_hiller]

They have to model it in 3d in order for everything to work. The question is if they cache or keep the model for later use in the area

Even if the 3D environment is not strictly cached, I believe the perception code is based on recurrent neural networks, which will inherently "remember" previous data.

 

[EVNow]

Same with cars in car parks. They see the curb from a distance and even when they lose sight of it as they get nearer they know more or less where it is. Some FSD manufacturers are replicating that by building a 3D model of the world, but there is no evidence so far that Tesla is doing that. Their system seems to be purely reactive to what it can see in the moment.

They create a drivable path - which takes into account what the cameras (and other sensors ?) are seeing. So, this is how the can remembers what it saw.

A good example is lanes through intersections. So, even though there are no lines to separate the lanes, the car "remembers" the path of the lanes before the intersection and after the intersection and extrapolates the lane through the intersection & remembers that path as it drives though the intersection.

 

[diplomat33]

Hot off the presses folks:

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[willow_hiller]

Hot off the presses folks:

View attachment 444340

I wish there was a "disappointed" post reaction

 

[diplomat33]

I wish there was a "disappointed" post reaction

Yeah, I hear ya. Maybe it's best to tune out the updates and just wait for the dang thing to come out whenever it comes out.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Hot off the presses folks:

View attachment 444340

Who knew self-driving could be so hard???

I'm going to make the bold prediction that it will not be out in 8 weeks. I feel bad for the engineers working on it.

 

[Octo]

REALLY !!!!!!!!

 

[jebinc]

Hot off the presses folks:

View attachment 444340

Thanks for sharing. Glad they didn't just remain silent on the matter. I'm not optimistic that v10 will be out in 4-6 weeks, but at least the "Hopefully August" BS has ceased.

P.S. Ah, anyone else notice the rebranding of Enhanced Summon to "Smart" Summon? Sounds like a downgrade to me...

Edit: So, does anyone think Tesla will fix this next?

Enhance summon coming next week!​

 

[Az_Rael]

Yeah, I hear ya. Maybe it's best to tune out the updates and just wait for the dang thing to come out whenever it comes out.

LOL, you will join us more seasoned folks soon. I also no longer pay much attention to software update announcements or all the magic that is supposed to be in the first release. Way less stress to just watch and enjoy the ride as it happens.

 

[Octo]

LOL, you will join us more seasoned folks soon. I also no longer pay much attention to software update announcements or all the magic that is supposed to be in the first release. Way less stress to just watch and enjoy the ride as it happens.

And given how awesome the actual ride (as in car) is, it’s the best attitude!!

 

[Dutchie]

Hot off the presses folks:

View attachment 444340

I wish he would refrain from using timelines. He sucks at it. There will be nothing in six to eight weeks. May be the end of the year if we are lucky.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I'm going to make the bold prediction that it will not be out in 8 weeks. I feel bad for the engineers working on it.

Yeah, he really can't help himself with the timelines. It's no big deal if it doesn't happen until next year - why set an expectation? Just extra pressure on the engineers for no reason. Just sell cars, as expensive as possible, and figure out how to service & repair them. This whole autonomy thing is overblown anyway, kind of like cryptocurrencies. All hype. Plus it's really hard.

The car is good enough to sell on its own, especially with constantly improving safety features. Get that Model Y out the door!