Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Enhanced Summon, where are you?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Well, here is a crazy soul who tried it in a Costco/Home Depot parking lot. Joseph Schager on Twitter

interesting how the car tried to pull around the one fellow stopped waiting on pedestrians then just got itself stuck in the classic Costco jam. The person in the gray SUV was probably wondering what to do as they had no driver to make eye contact with.

Insanity. Did pretty well though! Impressive, though there was nearly an accident (not due to the Tesla, except for its positioning). Turns out you want to generally be driving in the middle of the aisle, not the left or right, unless there is traffic. They’ll probably need to modify that programming, so as to minimize risk of backing incidents. Probably would have avoided that other incident with that modification.

Need to maintain maximum buffers to other vehicles!
 
Last edited:
Well, here is a crazy soul who tried it in a Costco/Home Depot parking lot. Joseph Schager on Twitter

interesting how the car tried to pull around the one fellow stopped waiting on pedestrians then just got itself stuck in the classic Costco jam. The person in the gray SUV was probably wondering what to do as they had no driver to make eye contact with.


This is what I wanted to see. Pretty impressive. I still doubt I’d use this, but looks promising, nonetheless.
 
Actually, I've followed Tesla a long time before the Model 3. The Model 3 just happens to be my first Tesla. And if I am positive and supportive of Tesla, it is only because I have admired the company for years (before the Model 3). When I first saw a Model S, I thought it was a gorgeous, exciting car and I wanted to buy one for years. When Tesla announced the Model 3, it was finally my chance to own a Tesla after waiting so long for one. So yeah, I can get pretty excited about Tesla.

I would still have to agree with some others than in your hubris you are ignoring — or paying lipservice to — a lot of negative history that Tesla has that is guiding the in my view more informed views of many older Tesla car owners.

For some things you had to be there with the car, not just with the stock or the browser, to truly learn how this company operates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: am_dmd
I would still have to agree with some others than in your hubris you are ignoring — or paying lipservice to — a lot of negative history that Tesla has that is guiding the in my view more informed views of many older Tesla car owners.

For some things you had to be there with the car, not just with the stock or the browser, to truly learn how this company operates.

My earlier post was just a, perhaps overly excitement way, of expressing that Smart Summon is now out (finally!) and is seemingly not the disaster that the naysayers predicted. I was not ignoring the negative history of Tesla.

I admit my optimism probably clouds my perception in the positive direction. But some of you are so bitter that it is clouding your perception in the negative direction. And yes, you've told me about all the times that Tesla has disappointed you and wronged you. I empathize. I really do. But you can't let it consume you. And you can't try impose it on others. Let other owners who have a very positive ownership experience with Tesla so far, have their joy.
 
My earlier post was just a, perhaps overly excitement way, of expressing that Smart Summon is now out (finally!) and is seemingly not the disaster that the naysayers predicted. I was not ignoring the negative history of Tesla.

I admit my optimism probably clouds my perception in the positive direction. But some of you are so bitter that it is clouding your perception in the negative direction. And yes, you've told me about all the times that Tesla has disappointed you and wronged you. I empathize. I really do. But you can't let it consume you. And you can't try impose it on others. Let other owners who have a very positive ownership experience with Tesla so far, have their joy.

You fail to see the point, though. What I am striving for is a realistic outlook on things and it seems to me for some things you just ”had to be there” to really know them.

While I agree you can’t impose your outlook on others, one can definitely be critical of the outlook others have when you see it as a false outlook. Let’s look at that message of yours again:
Yeah but Tesla also pulls it off. The naysayers were predicting doom, a Smart Summon apocalypse. They said that Smart Summon would be hitting curbs and smashing into cars left and right if Tesla released it to the general public. well, looks like the Apocalypse will have to wait. Smart Summon is out to the general public and we are getting a flood of videos and Smart Summon is really great!

First problem is, that comes out more of an attack on those with critical views than an excited post on Tesla... the attack on the ”naysayers” came out more spiteful than anything. Maybe it is you that is consumed by this.

But that’s not the important bit. No matter our emotions, accuracy is emotionless and the only thing that matters. The important problem in your message is it completely fails to be realistic: No matter what you think of Smart Summon, you can not — no way — say after one day whether or not the concerns placed on it were warranted or not! That is just not a realistic way to look at this at all since there hasn’t been enough time to witness it in action anyway. Maybe it is great and there was no reason for concern, maybe it isn’t, we just don’t know yet.

Love it or hate it. We can’t know yet how well or not Smart Summon will perform out there in everday scenarios, so calling victory on the first day is unrealistic... and lacing it within an attack on naysayers was just unfair.

Case in point — first crashes with Smart Summon: Crash with needs to be smarter summons
 
  • Like
Reactions: am_dmd
First problem is, that comes out more of an attack on those with critical views than an excited post on Tesla... the attack on the ”naysayers” came out more spiteful than anything. Maybe it is you that is consumed by this.

I did not intend it that way at all. And I certainly did not intend to get personal. I just wanted to push back a bit against the constant pessimism and negativity.

Love it or hate it. We can’t know yet how well or not Smart Summon will perform out there in everday scenarios, so calling victory on the first day is unrealistic... and lacing it within an attack on naysayers was just unfair.

Fair point. Like I said, I probably jumped the gun a bit. Yeah, I admit there was some unintentional hubris. Again, I did not intend it to be a personal attack. I just wanted to push back against the doom and gloom. For a positive guy like me, the constant, never ending, pessimism and negativity is tough. I saw some positive videos of the general release and saw an opportunity to push back a little.
 
For a positive guy like me, the constant, never ending, pessimism and negativity is tough. I saw some positive videos of the general release and saw an opportunity to push back a little.

That’s a fair and a helpful personal observation. Maybe it helps an equal measure to note that at least some of us pessimists or critics are actually quite happy in our positions. For me keeping it real (as I see it) with Tesla is a positive exercise, not a negative one. The car is bought years ago in my case, who cares if it was sold in a misleading manner... There’s no emotion there. I just feel informed. I want to be informed.

What I find hard is when I see too much hubris. In me, that results in a desire to push things back to whatever I see as a realistic level. In the end, those checks and balances on all sides hopefully result in a better conversation outcome.

In my view, in the end our emotions are not the point. Somewhere out there is the truth about Tesla’s autonomous and semi-autonomous status. Finding that out matters within this context as best we can. If it is great and all the criticism is merely old, obsoleted bitterness, that reality will unveil itself soon enough — and I for one will then happily acknowledge it. But there is also a realistic possibility things are not rosy and that too needs to be said.
 
Last edited:
I have a lot better things to do than post about Musk and his lies.
Let's keep this thread to it's relevant discussion and I had just asked a question to a member not you.
I don't care whatever industry they are disrupting. They lied to me and several others when they sold AP2 with that fake video.
You can't say "Let's keep this thread to it's relevant discussion" and then go on to spread FUD. "lied to you" is your speculation - not fact. That is why I call it FUD and trollish. We have been through this discussion a million times before. It is irrelevant to this thread.

I wish we had a moderator for this forum who can remove such posts and warn members not to post trollish comments.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: am_dmd
There’s no emotion there. I just feel informed. I want to be informed.
LOL.

In case you don't know - all of us think we are rational and there is no emotion. Afterall a lot of us have (a lot of) money on the line - unlike you (apparently).

We have been through this multiple times before. What you write is your interpretation of what happened - and I've explained multiple times why there are other better (IMO) interpretations.

That is the reason why we should keep that kind of talk out of these threads. If you have a general idea that Tesla is full of frauds and liars and that "informs" all your posts - then you are obviously not posting in the right forum.

But - I'm sure we can all post factual / technical information - that doesn't need to go into motivations of Tesla's past or present actions. If we just stick to discussing these things (like my post below). we won't have these "flame wars" here all the time. I have seen you post a lot of good technical / factual stuff - so not sure why you want to bring in speculative things which only lead to flames.

For all their faults Tesla is the only auto maker that is seriously taking on Climate Change. To me that's the most important thing.

Musk: V10 wide release "hopefully end of august" after early access
 
Last edited:
For me keeping it real (as I see it) with Tesla is a positive exercise, not a negative one. The car is bought years ago in my case, who cares if it was sold in a misleading manner... There’s no emotion there. I just feel informed. I want to be informed.
LOL.

In case you don't know - all of us think we are rational and there is no emotion. Afterall a lot of us have (a lot of) money on the line - unlike you (apparently).

Where did I claim I was rational and lacking emotion? Nowhere. I merely stated I have no emotions on this regarding or due to my own car (or, rather, I do: I like my car). Look, it soon turns three. It is no longer new thing. Despite the AP2 debacle it has been a good car and I like it. I don’t feel personally wronged, even though objectively speaking of course I was.

But you want to know what I feel strongly about? Stuff like this — because this seems to be based on safety concerns and Tesla is adopting bunker mentality instead of being open about it:

Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

It is so far not affecting my car and given the lifecycle maybe it never will, but these kinds of stunts are absolutely the reason why I feel Tesla as a company warrants cynicism. I also feel strongly about many conversations where I feel someone is belittling things I disagree with. I’m not denying those feelings at all or my subjectivity as a human like the rest of us.

So I look at stuff like Autonomy Investor Day and AP progress with a healthy dose of scepticism because of what I’ve come to learn about Tesla the company... but my feelings about my own car are not an issue, I like my car.

If it develops a sudden 30 miles less syndrome, I will let you know if my feelings change.
 
Last edited:
What do you guys think about the post mentioned here in the insideev article?

Some people say the description doesn't match the picture. Did the car go forward or backwards. Critics say it's fake and the car went backwards. I think they are wrong. Hard to damage the camera going backwards due to the mirror. And I also see summon turning the wheels sharply at very low speeds. Additionally my friend scratched his car on an earlier version of summon the same way.

First Report Of Accident With Tesla Smart Summon Emerges


Another test here "chasing" the kid


not sure if this was poster here before

 
  • Disagree
Reactions: 82bert
What do you guys think about the post mentioned here in the insideev article?

Some people say the description doesn't match the picture. Did the car go forward or backwards. Critics say it's fake and the car went backwards. I think they are wrong. Hard to damage the camera going backwards due to the mirror. And I also see summon turning the wheels sharply at very low speeds. Additionally my friend scratched his car on an earlier version of summon the same way.

First Report Of Accident With Tesla Smart Summon Emerges


Another test here "chasing" the kid


not sure if this was poster here before

That first video is not current V10 smart summon.
 
What do you guys think about the post mentioned here in the insideev article?

Some people say the description doesn't match the picture. Did the car go forward or backwards. Critics say it's fake and the car went backwards. I think they are wrong. Hard to damage the camera going backwards due to the mirror. And I also see summon turning the wheels sharply at very low speeds. Additionally my friend scratched his car on an earlier version of summon the same way.

First Report Of Accident With Tesla Smart Summon Emerges


Another test here "chasing" the kid


not sure if this was poster here before


Some discussion of this here:

Crash with needs to be smarter summons

In my experience people who think these things are fake are almost always wrong. They look for perceived discrepancies that in the end amount to paranoia or nitpicking that doesn’t fit the real world where people are illogical creatures with their little imperfections and so on.

I can see that damage being caused by hitting to something in a garage that can have many protruding things. I can also totally see a on/off Twitter user returning with something like this after years of break because this is exactly the kind of stuff Twitter is useful for getting a response.

Mind you: Not saying it can’t be fake. I’m just not buying the reasons to doubt it. The reason I would doubt it is a simple one: you never know on the Internet. But I don’t see any particular reason to doubt this anymore than the average thing — I might see such doubters more likely having ulterior motives like protecting TSLA positions or such, but that would be paranoia. ;)
 
Last edited:
You can't say "Let's keep this thread to it's relevant discussion" and then go on to spread FUD. "lied to you" is your speculation - not fact. That is why I call it FUD and trollish. We have been through this discussion a million times before. It is irrelevant to this thread.

I wish we had a moderator for this forum who can remove such posts and warn members not to post trollish comments.
I can't believe you think it's my speculation that Tesla lies! :rolleyes: (I am sure most frequent members are aware about your constant use of words FUD and Trollish). Tesla/Elon started these lies and they should own it too :)
Yeah I wish moderators put the facts on front page vs some hunky dory posts.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: jebinc
DirtyTesla on Twitter

David F Guajardo on Twitter

AB on Twitter

Roddie Hasan - راضي on Twitter

Tesla released this feature less than 24 hours ago. It has only been rolled out to a portion of the fleet. There have already been multiple confirmed accidents.

This is dangerous garbage. Even when it "works," the videographers make piles of apologies for its poor and erratic behavior -- even in completely empty parking lots.

The only people whose "minds are blown" are people who have never been in an actual L4 prototype vehicle. There are multiple L4 companies that together have driven ~20 million miles, with fewer at-fault accidents than Enhanced Summon has had in 24 hours.

I have instructed my family to literally run away from any Tesla that seems to be driving oddly. I have a 14 month old toddler, and I literally fear for her life now.

Generally speaking when you post a bunch of links to videos they should back up the main point you're trying to make.

Is Smart Summons garbage or is it dangerous? If its garbage people won't use it, and hence it's not dangerous.

It seems like you're trying to make the argument that it's both.

The first link shows that it's garbage, but it was a weird place to test it. I don't feel like Tesla had that use case in mind.
The second link doesn't show anything, and is simply an accident that wasn't the fault of the Tesla. But, it wouldn't have happened to a human driver as the human driver would have honked. In your post you mentioned "at-fault accidents", but you didn't post a link to any videos of at fault accidents.
The third link shows damage to the car, but we have no idea what the owner was attempting.
The fourth link shows smart summons being dangerous. It was almost an at-fault accident, but everyone stopped before it happened.

So of those 4 videos only one really shows it being dangerous. There are tons of videos that are better than the first link you posted that shows it being stupid. So I'm not sure why you chose the first one.

I'm not going to make any excuses for Smart Summons as in my own testing it was neither consistent enough nor was there any confidence building behavior to lead me to trust it to go beyond the empty parking lot testing that I was doing. There is plenty of evidence that shows it being inconsistent, and it failing to pick a path that a human driver would.

But, is it dangerous? I'd say it is highly dependent on what the owner is going to ask of it.

Will the owner abide by the requirement to be in visual site of the vehicle, and will they monitor the vehicle as it drivers towards them? Will they identify risk factors like toddlers and small children on the route especially at the start (where a small kid might be hidden from the cameras).

With a responsible owner I don't believe its all that dangerous. At least no more so than a typical average parking lot danger level. Sure there is a slight delay to stopping when releasing the button, but pedestrian detection seems solid.

The fourth link you posted is the best one at arguing a counter point to my argument. Where you can use it to demonstrate the cars visual system not identifying a car coming the other way. I can't explain why it failed.

The L4 driving that you mentioned isn't applicable to what Tesla is doing. The sensors, and the situations the cars are being tested in are completely different. They are not commercial released vehicles, and they are way more expensive than anyone could afford even if they were somehow released.

If I had a 14 month year old toddler my fear of parking lots would already be at a level 5 out of 5. I simply don't see a Tesla adding to that.
 
Will the owner abide by the requirement to be in visual site of the vehicle, and will they monitor the vehicle as it drivers towards them? Will they identify risk factors like toddlers and small children on the route especially at the start (where a small kid might be hidden from the cameras).

I wonder especially about the near vision... there are the known blindspots in the forward quarter of the suite as well as most vision confusion with indentifying nearby objects, that is the part where I would be most concerned with kids, pets, protruding objects etc.
 
Just a question, is it legal actually to do this on a Wallmart parking? Just wondering about the legal implications when you have an accident.

edit:

There’s some concern from the general public (at least on Twitter) that this feature encourages is reckless, but it’s perfectly legal. At least it is in California.

The Smart Summon feature isn’t advanced enough to be considered “autonomous technology,” according to Marty Greenstein, spokesperson for Public Affairs for the California Department of Motor Vehicles, and therefore is not governed by AV regulations. That means that no permit is needed. However, the DMV stated in an email that Tesla needs clear and effective communication to the driver about the technology’s capabilities and intended use.

“It’s the same as using Autopilot,” says Greenstein in a phone interview with Forbes. “You can use it like you do any advanced driver assistance feature on public roads.”