EPA range disparity

[Dan203]

So the Tesla website lists the Model 3 Performance as 299 miles of range. Yet the EPA specifically lists the performance with 20" wheels as 30kwh/100 miles. Which means that to do 299 miles the battery pack would need to be 90kwh. But it's only 75kwh right? A 75kwh pack at 30kwh/100 miles would only get 250 miles.

Same applies to the Long Range. Tesla claims 322 miles, EPA says 28kwh/100 miles. Which would also require a 90kwh pack.

These things don’t actually have a 90kwh pack do they? If not why is Tesla advertising a range that's essentially 15% higher than the EPA estimate?

So far my Performance is saying I'm averaging 345wh/mile, or 34.5kwh/100 miles in EPA terms, so I'm only looking at getting maybe 220 miles from a full charge. Which is fine for my needs, but way less then Tesla's claims.

 

[CertLive]

Drive at 50mph?

 

[Dan203]

Drive at 50mph?

What is the EPA using as a metric?

 

[CertLive]

That is with aircon cooling on the whole trip. 70 mph most of it. Seems to me you are flooring it a lot? Try air recirculate too makes a huge difference.

 

[Dan203]

That is with aircon cooling on the whole trip. 70 mph most of it. Seems to me you are flooring it a lot? Try air recirculate too makes a huge difference.View attachment 562374

I am absolutely flooring it a lot. And I haven’t taken many long steady trips. I got my car in September and it still has less than 2,500 miles. Thanks to COVID I've driven about 100 miles total in the last 4 months.

I also have the performance with the 20" wheels and performance tires, so that's not helping either.

 

[McFlurri]

I am absolutely flooring it a lot. And I haven’t taken many long steady trips. I got my car in September and it still has less than 2,500 miles. Thanks to COVID I've driven about 100 miles total in the last 4 months.

I also have the performance with the 20" wheels and performance tires, so that's not helping either.

If i was flooring my old gas car, i wouldn't be mad at Ford for worse than advertised fuel economy....

 

[Dan203]

If i was flooring my old gas car, i wouldn't be mad at Ford for worse than advertised fuel economy....

I'm not mad about the range I get. It's fine and I'm not driving it to maximize efficiency.

My question was more about the discrepancy between the EPA rating of 290wh/m and Tesla's advertised range of 299 miles. To get 299 miles on a 75kwh pack you'd have to get ~250wh/m. I actually wasn’t sure if Tesla was just assuming you'd get better wh/m than the EPA suggests, or if the car actually had a bigger battery then I thought.

 

[chrishu]

What is the EPA using as a metric?

60 mph

 

[chrishu]

I'm not mad about the range I get. It's fine and I'm not driving it to maximize efficiency.

My question was more about the discrepancy between the EPA rating of 290wh/m and Tesla's advertised range of 299 miles. To get 299 miles on a 75kwh pack you'd have to get ~250wh/m. I actually wasn’t sure if Tesla was just assuming you'd get better wh/m than the EPA suggests, or if the car actually had a bigger battery then I thought.

Both the range (well when the car is new and thus before battery degradation) and the kwh/miles metrics are EPA metrics. On fueleconomy.gov you can find out for your car, the range and kwh/miles metric.
Oh yes, flooring, causes, more battery degradation, so I would be carefull with that.

 

[Gasaraki]

I'm not mad about the range I get. It's fine and I'm not driving it to maximize efficiency.

My question was more about the discrepancy between the EPA rating of 290wh/m and Tesla's advertised range of 299 miles. To get 299 miles on a 75kwh pack you'd have to get ~250wh/m. I actually wasn’t sure if Tesla was just assuming you'd get better wh/m than the EPA suggests, or if the car actually had a bigger battery then I thought.

The EPA test has very little highway miles and it's tested at low speeds, like 45mph or something stupid like that.

 

[XLR82XS]

EPA test is probably conducted here in south Florida on the flat alligator alley with no A/C in winter with 75F ambient temperature.

 

[Saghost]

EPA Wh/mile ratings are measured from the plug. So they include charging losses.

 

[Zoomit]

So the Tesla website lists the Model 3 Performance as 299 miles of range. Yet the EPA specifically lists the performance with 20" wheels as 30kwh/100 miles.

The energy consumption metric of 30kWh/100mi is intended by the EPA to allow you to calculate cost to drive a given distance. Therefore it includes all the energy that flows from where the cost is tabulated, your home power meter. It’s commonly referred to as a is a “wall-to-wheels” metric. The numbers are different from vehicle range simply because it also includes the losses associated with converting 240v AC power to 400v DC power in the on-board charger.

Basically, anytime you see an EPA number of xxkWh/100mi, it’s represents total energy consumption not driving energy consumption.

 

[Zoomit]

The EPA test has very little highway miles and it's tested at low speeds, like 45mph or something stupid like that.

The 5-cycle EPA test series includes speeds up to 80mph during the high speed US06 schedule. The average speed is 48 mph.

The EPA Combined Range metric is in no way intended to represent the range available while driving at highway speeds.

Detailed Test Information

 

[Zythryn]

The energy consumption metric of 30kWh/100mi is intended by the EPA to allow you to calculate cost to drive a given distance. Therefore it includes all the energy that flows from where the cost is tabulated, your home power meter. It’s commonly referred to as a is a “wall-to-wheels” metric. The numbers are different from vehicle range simply because it also includes the losses associated with converting 240v AC power to 400v DC power in the on-board charger.

Basically, anytime you see an EPA number of xxkWh/100mi, it’s represents total energy consumption not driving energy consumption.

Exactly this^^^

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The 5-cycle EPA test series includes speeds up to 80mph during the high speed US06 schedule. The average speed is 48 mph.

The EPA Combined Range metric is in no way intended to represent the range available while driving at highway speeds.

Detailed Test Information

I don't know if this is still the case, but at least for a number of years, for EVs manufacturers were able to use the 2-cycle test with a 70% fudge factor. If using the 2-cycle test it wouldn't include the high-speed test. Any manufacturer lacking principle (i.e. all of them) would use whichever gave the better numbers.

 

[Black306]

That is with aircon cooling on the whole trip. 70 mph most of it. Seems to me you are flooring it a lot? Try air recirculate too makes a huge difference.View attachment 562374

If you were doing 70mph half the time, then you averaged ~13mph for the rest of the trip. 214 Wh/m is not going to happen on a M3P with 20” wheels @70mph unless it’s downhill with a tailwind. LOL

 

[CertLive]

If you were doing 70mph half the time, then you averaged ~13mph for the rest of the trip. 214 Wh/m is not going to happen on a M3P with 20” wheels @70mph unless it’s downhill with a tailwind. LOL

There was a grid lock moment in there added time. I think my overall average now is 232 after that large trip.

 

[KenC]

You might consider downloading the ABRP app, and have it calibrate your reference consumption, which will give you your efficiency at 65mph. Mine is 235Wh/mile, but I usually drive 75 to 80mph on the interstate, which is 265Wh/mile, but it's useful to have a reference number for 65mph, to compare a new set of tires, etc.

 

[Big Ike]

Tesla Model 3 Highway Range Test At A Constant 70 MPH

I thought that this article might be on topic. They just published their results on the Model Y today.