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EPA range test based on 55 mph, and AC off and one passenger?

Hi all,
the debate of 90D and 100D range raised a question to me:
the so claimed 257 miles and 295 miles is tested on what condition?
I heard it is 55 mph, but did EPA mention anything else?
does the car go without turning on AC? How many passengers or how much weight does the car carry?

If I am on a road trip with 5 people and there luggage (probably two 26 inch cases with clothes inside), how does that hurt the range? In this case, will the 100D 38 more mile make a big difference?

Anyone have the idea? Thanks.
 

chillaban

Active Member
May 5, 2016
3,723
6,599
Bay Area
EPA's range test is pretty rigorous but still worse than a lot of real world conditions. Here's a good article describing the cycles and how it applies to EV's: How the EPA determines an electric vehicle’s range - not as simple as it sounds - Torque News


It's definitely not 55mph, AC off, 1 passenger. That's Elon Miles, the ideal range unit.


And the 100D will always outlast a 90D, so I'm not sure what the motivation behind the question is. If your passengers / driving style / cargo makes your 100D have worse real range, then the same thing would happen to your 90D and you'd get even fewer miles.
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,224
7,102
Delaware
Those are EPA ratings, based on a whole battery of tests as Chillaban said. In my experience, it's fairly easy to achieve at 65-70 on longer trips, and to exceed significantly at 55-60.

Cold weather and short trips both hurt, and the two combined can be very painful, especially if range mode is off (because it'll keep dumping energy into trying to warm up the battery pack.)
 

McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
6,080
LA
I do not believe the EPA tests EV range. It's up to the MFR to provide that data.

Even on ICE vehicles, they only spot check the data submitted on random models.

This is why the 2015 Volt did not show an EV range increase even when the battery capacity increased. Chevrolet did not bother submitting new data.
 
I do not believe the EPA tests EV range. It's up to the MFR to provide that data.

Even on ICE vehicles, they only spot check the data submitted on random models.

This is why the 2015 Volt did not show an EV range increase even when the battery capacity increased. Chevrolet did not bother submitting new data.

If you let mfr to report their own data, how would you compare Bolt against Model 3?
 

McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
6,080
LA
If you let mfr to report their own data, how would you compare Bolt against Model 3?

Editorial review by journalists?

There are EPA specifications for how the testing is to be done. The manufacturers test the cars per that specification and submit the data to the EPA. Sometimes the mfrs fib a bit. Tire pressure, tire selection, soft side of the tolerance, or just plain edit data. Several companies have been caught in the past.
 
EPA's range test is pretty rigorous but still worse than a lot of real world conditions. Here's a good article describing the cycles and how it applies to EV's: How the EPA determines an electric vehicle’s range - not as simple as it sounds - Torque News


It's definitely not 55mph, AC off, 1 passenger. That's Elon Miles, the ideal range unit.


And the 100D will always outlast a 90D, so I'm not sure what the motivation behind the question is. If your passengers / driving style / cargo makes your 100D have worse real range, then the same thing would happen to your 90D and you'd get even fewer miles.
That article is kind of a dud. No reference to speeds, or durations. No real specifics about the choices they made. If the information was there, it sure flew fast over my head.
 

McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
6,080
LA
That article is kind of a dud. No reference to speeds, or durations. No real specifics about the choices they made. If the information was there, it sure flew fast over my head.

That article seems to imply that the EPA tests EVs. From the EPA documented test procedure:

...
Range values listed on the FE Label (window sticker) for electric vehicles to be adjusted using one of the following methods:

• by multiplying city/highway fuel economy and range values by 0.7 and dividing city/highway energy consumption and CO2 values by 0.7;
• using the vehicle specific 5-cycle method described in 40 CFR 600.210-12(a)(1);
• using a method which is equivalent to the vehicle specific 5-cycle method described in 40 CFR 600.210-12(a)(1) (with prior EPA approval);
• using adjustment factors which are based on in-use data (with prior EPA approval).

Currently, most EVs use the first method (the 0.7 factor).
 

chillaban

Active Member
May 5, 2016
3,723
6,599
Bay Area
That article is kind of a dud. No reference to speeds, or durations. No real specifics about the choices they made. If the information was there, it sure flew fast over my head.
It gives references to the technical names for each of the cycles, and which pieces and corrective factors apply to EVs. It was meant as an invitation to search for the details of each of the cycles.

I had tried to find a better source that would give both the EV-specific rules as well as a description of each cycle but couldn't.
 
Those are EPA ratings, based on a whole battery of tests as Chillaban said. In my experience, it's fairly easy to achieve at 65-70 on longer trips, and to exceed significantly at 55-60.

Cold weather and short trips both hurt, and the two combined can be very painful, especially if range mode is off (because it'll keep dumping energy into trying to warm up the battery pack.)
Do you mean that we can usually achieve the EPA range in real world even if we drive at higher speed (65~70) ? Thanks.
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,224
7,102
Delaware
Do you mean that we can usually achieve the EPA range in real world even if we drive at higher speed (65~70) ? Thanks.

Depends on your definition of higher speeds.

Past 70, it gets ugly pretty fast on the X - there's a limit to how much magic Tesla can work; it's a big heavy CUV showing the efficiency of a compact car (literally - my EPA ratings are the same as my Volt's were.)

But yes, in decent weather I can get rated range in the 65-70 mph range on flat or mostly flat terrain.
 

RayW

Joy Riding
Nov 9, 2016
397
709
Cypress
Hi all,
the debate of 90D and 100D range raised a question to me:
the so claimed 257 miles and 295 miles is tested on what condition?
I heard it is 55 mph, but did EPA mention anything else?
does the car go without turning on AC? How many passengers or how much weight does the car carry?

If I am on a road trip with 5 people and there luggage (probably two 26 inch cases with clothes inside), how does that hurt the range? In this case, will the 100D 38 more mile make a big difference?

Anyone have the idea? Thanks.

It's a special track which only goes down-hill and always has a tail wind.
 
Those are EPA ratings, based on a whole battery of tests as Chillaban said. In my experience, it's fairly easy to achieve at 65-70 on longer trips, and to exceed significantly at 55-60.

Cold weather and short trips both hurt, and the two combined can be very painful, especially if range mode is off (because it'll keep dumping energy into trying to warm up the battery pack.)

Has this (underlined part) been discussed in a thread somewhere I can read? ... ok ... found it if this helps others: Interesting finding about Range Mode
 

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