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EPA ratings for all 85 kWh models

Discussion in 'Model S' started by MarcG, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    #1 MarcG, Feb 11, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
    I was browsing the EPA website earlier today, and noticed some interesting numbers for the S85, S85D, and P85D.

    First thing that struck me is that they had two versions for the P85D. The 2014 version, which is just called out as "2014 Tesla Model S AWD (85 kW-hr battery pack)" with no mention of the P85D model, was rated at 242 miles of range (with the same MPGe details as those on my Monroney sticker) whereas the 2015 version, called out properly as "2015 Tesla Model S AWD - P85D", is rated at 253 miles - which is what Tesla currently advertises:

    Screen Shot 2015-02-11 at 11.11.57 AM.png


    The next interesting thing is the power rating of the motors:

    Screen Shot 2015-02-11 at 11.15.16 AM.png


    It looks like the front motor in the 2015 version of the P85D was reduced to 164 kW (241 hp) from the 2014 version, which supposedly had 180 kW (220 hp). Tesla's website currently shows 221 hp for the front motor.

    The S85D correctly shows the two motors as 140 kW (188 hp) that Tesla advertises, however the S85 shows 270 kW (362 hp) whereas Tesla advertises 380 hp.

    And finally, instead of "All-Wheel Drive" for the 2015 P85D, the 2014 version stated "4-Wheel Drive". Perhaps because torque sleep was not implemented yet at the time?


    PS: apologies for the red bold font - it was really difficult to discern what I wrote from the EPA site's font.
     
  2. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Lots of odd things in there - what caught my attention is that both the 2015 D cars had increases in the MPGe numbers beyond what we saw before - continuing or increasing the disconnect between electric range and MPGe that had us all scratching our heads when the 242 number first surfaced.

    I'm still confused. :)
    Walter
     
  3. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    Oh boy, I hear the hornets buzzing now! interesting
     
  4. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    EPA-numbers make no sense at all.. 2015 P85D has better numbers than the RWD S85 for everything but the range....

    but seeing the reports on the latest firmwares I just dont care anymore:)
     
  5. RiverBrick

    RiverBrick Active Member

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    362 hp was the listed figure for the RWD S85 for a long time. iirc, TM only started advertising 380 hp last Fall. it was never clear to me if there was a real change, or if they simply changed the method of measurement.

    I believe there's a typo in the before and after figures for the P85D (before and after numbers for the front motor switched).
     
  6. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    ^This. How does the P85D get better efficiency (mpge) than the S85, and yet have lower range estimates? MAKES. NO. SENSE.
     
  7. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    Less available battery capacity perhaps?
     
  8. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

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    We've been over this before. There isn't a good answer for it. I've been pondering making a FOIA request to the EPA and NHTSA for all communications with Tesla from 2011 on regarding testing for the numbers that go on window stickers.
     
  9. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    Do you believe everything you read on the EPA web site?
     
  10. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    As breser said, we spent several pages hashing this out when we first saw a P85D window sticker. The only way I can see to fit all of the numbers on the tag together (mainly the AER and MPGe) is with fewer kWh - but we know that the packs have the same useable amount. If it was due to changing the charge level at the start of the test (as several of us suggested,) then why did Tesla change the rated range numbers so the car gets the EPA rating at 100% SoC. The pieces don't all fit together.

    The MPGe totals on the website above are a close match for the kWh/100 miles numbers below them, allowing for rounding:

    93 MPGe = (33.7/.93) = 36.23 kWh/100 miles (vs 36 shown)
    89 MPGe = (33.7/.89) = 37.87 kWh/100 miles (vs 38 shown)
    100 MPGe = 33.7 kWh/100 miles (vs 34 shown)

    But to get that and the attached AERs, the energy at the wall is quite different:

    253 miles @ 36.23 kWh/100 miles = 91.66 kWh
    242 miles @ 37.87 kWh/100 miles = 91.65 kWh
    270 miles @ 33.7 kWh/100 miles = 90.99 kWh
    265 miles @ 37.87 kWh/100 miles = 100.36 kWh

    One of these things is not like the other ones... But Tesla changed the rated range numbers for some reason.
    Walter
     

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