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EU Market Situation and Outlook

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by SteveG3, Mar 25, 2014.

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  1. sweter

    sweter Member

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    There's a lot of contradicting reports about whether Model 3 is going through Tilburg or not, so I wouldn't be 100% sure about it, even if the info came from a Tesla sales rep (we know they aren't in the loop on everything).
     
  2. PaulusdB

    PaulusdB Mayor Gnomus Vintage Limb

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    Do you have a source/link for that info? All we hear is that Model 3 will be shipped roll-on roll-off into Zeebrugge (Belgium).
     
  3. 9837264723849

    9837264723849 Member

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    I wonder if Tesla waits for the Model 3 to be a hit in Europe before announcing the Euro GF.
     
  4. avoigt

    avoigt Active Member

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    It was told to me by the sales manager. I did ask twice and he confirmed with confidence.

    Can still be wrong but he did sound like he knows....

    Zeebrugge makes sense because of the harbor. IMHO direct delivery from their will not happen anyway although it would be great to reduce costs.
     
  5. hobbes

    hobbes Active Member

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    That is a surprise. When I was at the Düsseldorf showroom to take a look at the 3, they were very friendly, but they new *nothing*. Not even that the Superchargers would be retrofitted with CCS cables :confused:. Also, Elon said specifically they would be using roll-on roll-off ships to make things quicker and that only really makes sense if the cars can be driven on to the ship and are therefore complete.
     
  6. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    Netherlands to reduce import tarrif. Special deal? Only for testing or crash testing or demo test drive? Regulation tests or approval?
     
  7. hobbes

    hobbes Active Member

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    Now official, only a few countries:

    Tesla on Twitter
     
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  8. avoigt

    avoigt Active Member

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    Here we go, France. Delivery February or March. Not bad.

    TheTeslaLife Retweeted
    [​IMG]
    10h10 hours ago
    Voilà ma config, arrivée prévue : février/mars. Incroyable, j'en reviens pas.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    8 replies4 retweets36 likes

    Bob Jouy on Twitter
     
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  9. sweter

    sweter Member

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  10. mrdoubleb

    mrdoubleb Active Member

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    They have also been looking for a someone who coordinates and manages service in Eastern Europe, including Poland and Hungary and I have also heard they are working with a leasing company in Hungary to collect local buyers and help them with leasing and possibly take advantage of local subsidies. (Right now Tesla buyers in Hungary cannot use the ~4600 EUR incentive we have as Tesla is not officially selling cars in Hungary).

    So this is all encouraging. Hopefully they will soon open up shop East of Vienna as well.
     
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  11. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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  12. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    This is a totally weird and random list of countries.

    Norway I get: they're the "almost 100% EV" market, Tesla wants to see what full market penetration looks like ASAP, there's probably a huge waiting list.

    The Netherlands has some weird tax incentive / tarriff timing thing going on, I think.

    Switzerland is the rich, "money is no object" market which will buy lots of fully loaded Performance cars.

    France? because of current political issues maybe -- to let people know there's an alternative to gas prices?

    Sweden?!? Huh? Because they're adjacent to Norway? (But why not Denmark? And why the Netherlands and France, but not Belgium and Luxembourg which are in between?)

    No, I give up, I have no idea why these five countries. Seems random.
     
  13. schonelucht

    schonelucht Active Member

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    Configurator for Belgium will open tomorrow.
     
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  14. hobbes

    hobbes Active Member

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    Interesting. Do you mind to share your source? Does it seem likely it might not be only Belgium but a group of countries again (...maybe including Germany)?
     
  15. aubreymcfato

    aubreymcfato Member

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    They skipped UK and Germany, but they followed the Top 5 European countries:
    Tesla Europe Registration Stats

    UK I understand, Brexit makes everything more complicated: but Germany?
     
  16. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    As sad as this may sound, my uneducated guess would be that Germany just has too few reservation holders at the moment compared to more BEV friendly countries like Norway, Netherlands, France, etc.
    Sweden: I don't know anything about their incentives, but Tesla could be trying to batch cars for mainland Scandinavia. Then again, indeed why not Denmark as well, or Finland for that matter?

    Switzerland is the usual odd one out, having afaik no BEV incentives to speak of, yet still loads of Tesla sales.
    Perhaps a combination of income level, eco-mindedness, and car-craziness. Everytime I have been to Switzerland I was amazed that most of the cars seemed to be the top-of-the-line version of the respective model, even on really small ones like a VW Polo, Fiat 500, Mini, etc. The Swiss in general seem to prefer high performance top-trim-level cars.

    UK otoh I think might have more to do with being left-hand-drive rather than Brexit probably.
     
  17. avoigt

    avoigt Active Member

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    Its indeed strange but there have to be some reasons .... we just don't know.

    Also I was wrong with my assumption that they will deliver to Germany early on. Large market, lots of reservation holders, strong buying power, the Diesel city ban and of course home of large manufacturers.

    Only reason why they postponed is maybe that the 3 is not yet on the list for the € 4k incentive. Actually its scheduled to phase out in 2019 although I assume they extend it but as of now that would be a reason to bring the 3 to Germany first if incentives play a role at all.

    Also I follow them hiring service people and they are still ramping personal and good employees are usually hard to find in Germany but on the other side its Tesla and that has a positive sound for many...

    Ranking based on previous strong sales would explain some of them like Netherlands and Norway.

    Anyhow we all just do not know but I agree that the countries getting served first are a weird list.
     
  18. schonelucht

    schonelucht Active Member

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    Right here, TMC Dutch language part of the forum. Guy is well sources, also knew of the opening of the EU configurator earlier. But he was miss with a few days because the person that actually had to push the button called in sick(!) at that day. So yeah. There is that :)

    With regards to Germany being skipped (and this is speculation). I would not be surprised if it has to do with Germany being more anal on the rules (in general and with automotive competitors in particular). It will also be quite interesting to see how to whole switch over to CCS on the European superchargers will play out in Germany. Remember that was the country that objected the most to 'private/public' Tesla superchargers.
     
  19. schonelucht

    schonelucht Active Member

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    Another interesting tidbit courtesy of the Dutch office of statistics : they have numbers on the value of imported car parts into the Netherlands from the US. Remember that all EU cars go through Tilburg. First of all here are the raw numbers


    Year201220132014201520162017
    x m EUR55148286502596776
    Teslas in-16944985111061104417793
    /car (1000EUR)-5546404941
    The per car is a very rough estimate mainly because I assumed the 55M from 2012 as some base line non-Tesla related import that carried through the subsequent years. Also, the timing for when a car part is imported in the Netherlands does not correspond exactly with the time a car is registered.

    The office also has data for this year up to september : 655M EUR corresponding to 14045 cars or 44k per car, which is remarkably consistent again with the findings from earlier years. Therefore I think it is correct to estimate the parts costs of an unfinished average S/X coming into the Netherlands to be around 44K EUR.

    I do not how much leeway Tesla has in estimating the value of imported goods, but if they have there may be a incentive for Tesla to invoice them as low as possible due to the favorable corporate fiscal environment in the Netherlands (on both intellectual property and corporate tax).

    Finally, the Belgian subsidiary of Tesla had a 2017 turnover of 95M EUR with cost of goods on purchase 76M EUR and a net profit of 300K EUR. All while selling 1151 cars. Let's take roughly 10% purchase is parts, that's a purchase price to Tesla Belgium of around 59k per car and a sales price of 83k.

    The difference between the 44k imported good value and the 59k exported value is likely in the final assembly in Tilburg + the cost of intellectual property possibly held in the Netherlands (read Autopilot which is obviously mainly software). Again, speculation, but the Netherlands is very well known for having a tax man who is willing to enter into very favourable rulings on profits from intellectual property so it makes sense for Tesla to take advantage of that and recognize some of the intellectual property profits in the Netherlands.

    PS. all the numbers are from official state sources, but are in Dutch : CBS Statline and Balanscentrale | nbb.be (search for Tesla by name)
     
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  20. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    As of ~4 years ago BEVs paid no Swiss import tax vs 4% for ICEv.

    And some Cantons did not apply annual vehicle tax(50-250 Swiss Francs) on BEVs, not significant for a Tesla but better than nothing I guess.

    I have not read of any changes recently.
     
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