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EU Market Situation and Outlook

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Troy found out the official Denmark number was updated - it now stands at 525!

Actually it wasn't me who found out. Forum member egononzel from Denmark had mentioned that to me. I wouldn't have noticed it otherwise. I guess there are lots of Tesla fans interested in this topic.

By the way, in case others haven't noticed, recently we added a new column for Tesla market share. This graph is about that. You can see the exact percentages on the WIKI table. The numbers will auto update each time there is a new entry.
pubchart
 
The Model S/X won't "double" in price in Denmark, after all! The tax incentive price ceiling was ruled to be unfair subsidies of cheap EVs by the EU.

Obviously good news for TSLA, but this must hurt a lot of Danish people who bought a second hand Model S this quarter under the pressure of an imminent tax increase. Due to the exceptional demand, prices were really inflated for second hand models all over Europe. For example, one Dutch owner was able to sell his Model S over(!) list price. Others consistently got 10-15k more through 'grey' 3th party importers into Denmark compared with the regular price Tesla pays for turn-ins.
 
So the in power party is the Liberal Party which has 34 of 179 seats in the Danish Parliament.

The Liberals have support of the People's Party with 37 members, the Liberal Alliance with 13 members, and the Conservative People's Party with 6 members for a total of 90 for a 1 MP majority.

It seems everyone is ok or resigned with the decision of the European Commission except the People's Party. Hmmm.
 
The Model S/X won't "double" in price in Denmark, after all! The tax incentive price ceiling was ruled to be unfair subsidies of cheap EVs by the EU. Google Translate
For a high spec car, the increase in price should be closer to 16% than 60%, so Tesla should still be able to sell some cars.

Great news for Denmark & TSLA.

That would be interesting for the Netherlands as well, as a price cap on incentives was discussed here as well.
Could be good news for my future soon-to-be-reserved full optioned Model-3 :)
 
The Model S/X won't "double" in price in Denmark, after all! The tax incentive price ceiling was ruled to be unfair subsidies of cheap EVs by the EU. Google Translate

For a high spec car, the increase in price should be closer to 16% than 60%, so Tesla should still be able to sell some cars.

Thanks for the link. The original proposal to heavily tax Tesla made no sense, now this modification seems to get us a bit closer to some sanity.

I had trouble understanding the details from the article. I need to work on polishing my Danish language skills.

My understanding is that the Eu Commissioner of Taxation ruled the new Danish tax on Tesla (luxury ev) unfair due to providing a form of aid to cars priced under the luxury ceiling, as these cheaper cars were not hit by a new tax. So Danish parliament removed the ceiling? This ceiling removal might help Tesla by maintaining price differential and making all ev cars more exspensive with a new tax? They also delayed the ceiling? Not sure that I understand these bits.

Anyone has some more clarity on the obscure details?
 
Obviously good news for TSLA, but this must hurt a lot of Danish people who bought a second hand Model S this quarter under the pressure of an imminent tax increase. Due to the exceptional demand, prices were really inflated for second hand models all over Europe. For example, one Dutch owner was able to sell his Model S over(!) list price. Others consistently got 10-15k more through 'grey' 3th party importers into Denmark compared with the regular price Tesla pays for turn-ins.

Alright, let me try to get some structure to this (Fair warning: I'm not a native Dane, so I might miss a nuance).

The way I understand the situation is:

Previously the situation was:
a) For EVs below DKK 800.000: As of 1st of January the tax increase for all EVs - they will need to pay 20% of the "up to 180% registration tax" for 2016, that will increase by 20% to the full "100% of the 180% in 2020" - essentially a step-wise introduction
b) For EVs above DKK 800.000 (i.e. for Teslas only - there are not other EVs that would fall into this braket): There is not step-wise introduction and the full 180% tax applies as of January 1st 2016.

The situation as of now is:

a) remains in place
b) is removed - also expensive Teslas get the step-wise introduction of the full tax burden until 2020 - so a) applies for cars >800k DKK, too.

This will still make the Model S significantly more expensive as of next year.

So it still made sense to import used cars from all over Europe and it still made sense to buy a Tesla this year. It is just a relief of taxes on the 85D and above.
 
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Alright, let me try to get some structure to this (Fair warning: I'm not a native Dane, so I might miss a nuance).

The way I understand the situation is:

Previously the situation was:
a) For EVs below DKK 800.000: As of 1st of January the tax increase for all EVs - they will need to pay 20% of the "up to 180% registration tax" for 2016, that will increase by 20% to the full "100% of the 180% in 2020" - essentially a step-wise introduction
b) For EVs above DKK 800.000 (i.e. for Teslas only - there are not other EVs that would fall into this braket): There is not step-wise introduction and the full 180% tax applies as of January 1st 2016.

The situation as of now is:

a) remains in place
b) is removed - also expensive Teslas get the step-wise introduction of the full tax burden until 2020 - so a) applies for cars >800k DKK, too.

This will still make the Model S significantly more expensive as of next year.

So it still made sense to import used cars from all over Europe and it still made sense to buy a Tesla this year. It is just a relief of taxes on the 85D and above.

not comprehensible language, an algorithm translated into natural language, and Bernie sanders wants us to be like Denmark?
 
Maybe I am missing the sarcasm, but you seriously think it is warranted to start ragging on a non-native speaker who comes in trying to clear up some confusion on the Danish tax incentives? Information which is very helpful for investors in TSLA? How comprehensible is your Danish?


I am am sure your translation is fine, it's the Danish authorities that made it incomprehensible .
I am certain even the Danes cannot comprehend that in Danish.
 
not comprehensible language, an algorithm translated into natural language, and Bernie sanders wants us to be like Denmark?

Sorry, I was in a rush when I posted. Any specific points I can clear up? The problem is, that the situation is a bit complex. Sorry for that. The tax on new cars is not straight-up 180% but depends on a number of factors. Until today, BEVs were exempted from this tax entirely. In 2020 all BEVs will need to pay the full amount - up to the mythical 180% - whatever the amount is. So over the coming 5 years, every year 20% more of that "whatever the amount is" is due until we reach "100% of the up to 180%"
 
Alright, let me try to get some structure to this (Fair warning: I'm not a native Dane, so I might miss a nuance).

The way I understand the situation is:

Previously the situation was:
a) For EVs below DKK 800.000: As of 1st of January the tax increase for all EVs - they will need to pay 20% of the "up to 180% registration tax" for 2016, that will increase by 20% to the full "100% of the 180% in 2020" - essentially a step-wise introduction
b) For EVs above DKK 800.000 (i.e. for Teslas only - there are not other EVs that would fall into this braket): There is not step-wise introduction and the full 180% tax applies as of January 1st 2016.

The situation as of now is:

a) remains in place
b) is removed - also expensive Teslas get the step-wise introduction of the full tax burden until 2020 - so a) applies for cars >800k DKK, too.

This will still make the Model S significantly more expensive as of next year.

So it still made sense to import used cars from all over Europe and it still made sense to buy a Tesla this year. It is just a relief of taxes on the 85D and above.

This example of political corruption brought to you by the Oil, Industrial Gas and ICE Auto industry. Collectively, the Fuel Cell Lobby:

H2 LOGIC Welcomes Danish Extension of Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle Tax Exemption | FuelCellsWorks

H2 LOGIC Welcomes Danish Extension of Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle Tax Exemption
author Added by FuelCellsWorks, November 06, 2015

The Danish Government has announced a political agreement on extending the present tax exemption of FCEV’s for an additional three years throughout 2018. In addition the Government will gradually introduce taxes on BEV’s based on vehicle efficiency and price, thus mainly taxing high-end BEV’s with long driving range. The Danish tax regime pioneers a relevant political targeting of battery and fuel cell technologies to address different vehicle market segments.

In Denmark up to 180% registration tax and 25% VAT is normally applied on the base vehicle price meaning that a €17.000 gasoline vehicle reaches a total consumer price of more than €50.000. The FCEV tax exemption therefore provides a substantial indirect price-subsidy that makes the technology almost price competitive with gasoline today in Denmark.

In addition H2 Logic in collaboration with oil and gas companies are active on establishing a countrywide network of hydrogen fueling stations across Denmark. Today seven hydrogen fueling stations are in operation in Denmark, and with additional four planned onwards 2016 more than 50% of the population will be within convenient reach of hydrogen fueling.

The Danish tax exemption for BEV’s and FCEV’s has been in place since 2012 and was set to expire by end of 2015. The political negotiations on a possible extension was complicated by the massive sale in Denmark of high-end BEV’s with long range, that due to high battery cost and thus vehicle price indirectly caused a substantial loss of tax revenues.

The new decided Danish tax regime for BEV’s and FCEV’s is pioneering an alignment with the technology approach of the major car manufacturers. Batteries are targeted for use in smaller vehicles where short range and long charging time is accepted, whereas fuel cells are targeted for larger vehicles where range and fueling time are to match that of gasoline.

From 2016 BEV’s in Denmark will be taxed depending on the vehicle efficiency and size, thus incentivizing use of batteries in smaller vehicles where shorter range helps to lower the price and thus the loss of tax revenues. The continued exemption of FCEV’s will instead incentivize use of fuel cells for larger vehicles with long range, where cost reduction potential is greater as the high cost and thus loss of tax revenue from a long-range battery is avoided.

Jacob Krogsgaard, CEO of H2 Logic states:

“H2 Logic welcomes the continued Danish tax exemption for FCEV’s. This will ensure Denmark as one of the countries in the world with the best FCEV incentives. For H2 Logic the hydrogen fueling station network in Denmark will continue to be a strong showcase and platform for export of our technology to other countries. The pioneering Danish tax differentiation between BEV’s and FCEV’s will also incentivize that the technologies are targeted for their relevant vehicle market segments.”
 
Sorry, I was in a rush when I posted. Any specific points I can clear up? The problem is, that the situation is a bit complex. Sorry for that. The tax on new cars is not straight-up 180% but depends on a number of factors. Until today, BEVs were exempted from this tax entirely. In 2020 all BEVs will need to pay the full amount - up to the mythical 180% - whatever the amount is. So over the coming 5 years, every year 20% more of that "whatever the amount is" is due until we reach "100% of the up to 180%"

I had no trouble understanding your post - thanks for the concise summary.