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EU Signature Angst

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Pilotech, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. Pilotech

    Pilotech New Member

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    I have reserved a Black Signature Model S EU #229 to be delivered in Oslo, Norway. Latest delivery info now is 28th August 2013. This is as many of us know very late and 1 year later than the US Signature holders. The idea behind the Signature program was to put up cash for Tesla, in return we should get the cars first.


    For many reasons Tesla has put EU Signature holders behind approximately 15000 regular American customers. This way of prioritizing has been suboptimal for the EU Sig holders. Tesla has by this move kept the loan from the Sig holders 1 year longer than the intention was.


    Secondly, we see the delivery process in Norway (first of the EU deliveries) starting up slowly. They seem to have a priority process beyond this topic, apart from the fact that the regular cars seems to scheduled for delivery only days after the EU Sig cars. Thus again canceling the argument of early delivery of cars to the Sig holders.


    Thirdly, EU Sig holders has an agreement that make them pay approximately $5000 more for their cars than a similarly configured regular Model S.


    I will argue that Tesla should admit that they have not kept their part of the agreement with the EU Signature holders, and refund the price differential. By doing this, the EU Sig holders have contributed in funding Tesla, and for this they get their Signature cars. Tesla on their hand acknowledge the late delivery and align the Signature price with identically configured cars. After all it is identical products apart from the Signature decals.
     
  2. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    You can change your order to a production, yes? That might be the best route.

    Tesla, like all car manufacturers, has to deal with homologation requirements. I'm not saying that's the reason for the delay, but it certainly factors in.
     
  3. Pilotech

    Pilotech New Member

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  4. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    There are a few threads on this for the US side as well and Canada too. There is one minor difference in that the Sig has more leather throughout the inside if the car but not worth $5,000 I agree.
     
  5. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    For Tesla to do as you describe would have required a simultaneous launch on two continents last year. I'm wondering where the expectation came from that you would receive your Signature vehicle in Norway at the same time or shortly after Signature owners in the US, but before US production ramped up? You are asking the impossible from Tesla, which is to have had infrastructure in place on both sides of the Atlantic to launch in both areas at the same time so that you could get your Sig ahead of the other 15,000 US cars.

    You also realize that you would have been dealing with a lot of problems with the early production, yes? You would have received a vehicle that most likely would have required service for early issues that are no longer problems. As a EU Signature customer, you should be happy that Tesla has produced over 15,000 other vehicles, ironed out the kinks in production, and addressed a lot of issues that popped in the field. The benefit to you is that you will be getting a vehicle with much better fit and finish, and with many problems solved. This would not have been the case if you received your vehicle a year ago or even 6 months ago.

    Give Tesla a break, launching an electric luxury sedan on two continents at the same time when you are a startup with limited funds and experience is asking far too much in my opinion. The higher deposit paid for your Sig was not to give funds to Tesla - where does it say that? I thought the purpose of putting down such a high deposit was for the privilege of receiving the first shipments. The additional $5,000 buys you some features that others cannot buy at any price. Don't worry, be happy! :)
     
  6. Johann Koeber

    Johann Koeber Member

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    It's not just the late delivery.

    The difference in delivery date from Sig to non Sig is miniscule. Esp. compared with the total wait time.

    Personally, I am glad I downgraded from Sig to general production a year ago and used the freed up money towards a roadster.

    It would not be unfair, if the Sig holders got something extra for supporting Tesla for so long. Think free service for 1 year?

    One man's opinion.
     
  7. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I agree with you.

    I didn't buy a Signature since I don't have 30k lying around, but it seems like people are now complaining because delivery is getting so close.

    For a moment, step back and think about all the things Tesla did in just 5 years time. JUST 5 years, it's amazing to see what they did what other companies took 20 years.

    Delivering cars globally isn't a easy job and there are bumps in the road as you see. It was a gamble for everyone, even for me, I put 4k down into a company which never heard of.

    Please, give these hard working people a break. They are doing their best to get your car to you asap.
     
  8. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I agree they definitely could have made the value of the Signature reservation more but I waited 3.5 years and didn't get the car that much sooner than the production cars but not really sure what else they could have done. Short of halting production and keeping the factory idle for half a year burning through millions of dollars they just have to keep the production line going. A year of free service would have been a nice gesture.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is exactly what happened here in the US so these points have been well covered
    Signature Angst
     
  9. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    When I read the first post, my first thought was that was exactly what US Signature holders were saying in August of last year. A few of them were also outraged over lack of communication, wondering why they were being delayed, and a few were also skipped over while people with higher reservations numbers were getting their car. I have no doubt that Tesla would love for you to have your car today. I would be absolutely flabbergasted if Tesla promised that you would receive your Signature right after the US Signatures. Why? Because there had to have been a lot of work done to have your even shipped to Europe. Logistically it has been a lengthy process to get your car sent out to you. I'm certain that Tesla has gone out of their way to make sure that you are at the top of the European delivery list. Good luck. If the US is any indication, then hopefully the frustration will fade once you are driving the car.

    As far as I am aware, those frustrated customers didn't get any free things for their frustration. So I doubt European Sig holders are going to get anything extra either.
     
  10. NEWDL

    NEWDL R#350 R#1323 Sig23 8136

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    I see the EU program as an EXACT replica to the US program. If you wanted your car earlier you should have reserved a US Sig. You reserved an EU sig. This means you get your car before EU production cars NOT before US production cars. These are the risks of early adopters. It is not for everyone, but one of the key requirements is a high level of flexibility and understanding.

    The cost is also a function of early adoption. You get a car before everyone else. You pay for that convenience. Like it or not, that is how it works.

    I hope you enjoy your car... Sig or otherwise...
     
  11. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I agree. Not sure if you witnessed what happened with the USA orders, but basically the same thing. I know of a P that got their car about a week after me (a 400-number Sig). Also paid a "premium" over what they paid. Nothing about the sig was worthwhile for me. If you still have the option of downgrading, I would urge you to do so.

    I'd also have to disagree with comments that we should cut Tesla a break because of all they've accomplished. That's great, but what does that have to do with the value of a signature car?
     
  12. Right_Said_Fred

    Right_Said_Fred Model S - Sig. 283 EU

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    #12 Right_Said_Fred, Jul 24, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
    I am a huge Tesla-supporter, but as a Signature-reservation holder I am getting more and more frustrated by the fact that the Signature in Europe is quickly losing much of its value. I am sensing the same feeling form other Signature-reservation holders.

    We funded Tesla with €30.000 each in a time when the company badly needed the capital (it collected €15 million from all European Signature reservations). The risk was fully on us. We are also paying a few thousand euros extra. Ofcourse we had a choice, but we made that choice because in return we would get our cars earlier, approx. 3 months before delivery of regular cars would start. This was communicated constantly, even during the Get Amped-event earlier this year, after which we signed the orders.

    Since then the delivery date for the first Signatures has slipped from Spring 2013 to August 2013. Not nice, but also not completely unexpected. It was caused by the adaptations for the European market, but also by Tesla's wish to present good Q2-numbers to the stock market (which, I've been told, is important for Tesla's future). On July 8th production of European cars finally started, but at a fairly slow pace. My production number is halfway through the 500 Signatures and is only scheduled for production mid-August. That means production of just a few hundred Euopean cars in 5 weeks time. Tesla promised to allocate half of its production capacity to the European backlog this summer, but I guess other things are considered more important (delivery times of 2-3 weeks for US orders perhaps?).

    Still, this doesn't have much to do with the extra value of a Signature. What does, is the earlier delivery. This week however I've learned that my Signature will only be delivered late September/early October, at the same time as R's and maybe 1-2 weeks before some P's in my country (and actually after some Norwegian and Swiss P's). I welcome early delivery for everyone, I don't want to deny anyone a single day of driving in the Model S. And it's also good for Tesla as a company. But it's also a broken promise, a promise which Signature-holders paid extra for and took a huge risk for. So I support the cause of the topic starter.

    I'm not saying Tesla pay the back all of the Signature-premium. There is still some (if little) value in a Signature. But I am saying they could do something extra for the European Signature-holders, like free 3G for several years or something like that. And if that is too much to ask, do something symbolic. Because at the moment Tesla hasn't done anything yet. Fisker screwed up big time, but at least from them I got some items to soothen the wait, including a drawing signed by Henrik Fisker. From Tesla I've never received anything, not a single token of their appreciation. I had to actually buy a cap and jacket at a US store (with the help of a kind forum member from Seattle). Tesla, I know the stock market is important, but don't forget your customers.
     
  13. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    Here's how I see things... Tesla is going to get criticized no matter what it does because they have to balance several goals - some of which may be in conflict. You can't offer freebies and refund people money when you are trying to show Wall Street that you are profitable and generating higher revenues. When you are General Motors and operate in 37 different countries, own 150 manufacturing plants, employ over 200,000 people and have been around for over 100 years, there should be no excuses. When you are Tesla Motors and have been in business not even 10 years, operate in one country (now two), occupy 25% of a single manufacturing plant and employ 2,900 people, it's not like they have ever done this before or have a lot of resources on which to rely. So yes, they deserve a break in my opinion.
     
  14. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Then why charge the premium in the first place? They got 35k more than they did for P reservationists as it was. Why promise things that you don't deliver? Things happen sure, but when you saw what happened in the US, why repeat it in other countries? They don't deserve a break here IMO.
     
  15. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Recommendation: Rename this thread to "EU Signature Angst".
     
  16. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    I am fine with the time tesla has taken to iron out all the odds for my Model S. But Tesla would make me more happy to finally iron out the problems i still face with my Roadster after more then 2 1/2 years ownership. Now ths display shows permanetly error messages regarding the fan of the PEM. Looks like to much resistence with the wiring, when the PEM tries to power up the fan.
     
  17. CalDreamin

    CalDreamin Member

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    Euro production started before July 8. I saw Sig Red Model S on the Fremont factory production line on June 28. US Sigs sold out long before I ordered my MS, but I would have paid another $5000 for Sig Red. It's stunning.
     
  18. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    This could have been mine. Was the VIN 14983? P85+
     
  19. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Elon even said* the EU is getting a better charger in the car than the US has. Doubtless there are dozens of other refinements to getting what amounts to be a (minor) second generation car.

    I hazard to guess there will be some upset US owners when they ask for these Model S improvements and are denied by Tesla.

    *(Elon in Norway video)
     
  20. EU-P1422

    EU-P1422 Member

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    #20 EU-P1422, Jul 24, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
    let aside the time lap between US en european cars - I agree that homologation for the different european countries was a huge burden.
    furthermore, the european cars got some nice extras, like 3-phase charging (thx Wido) and parking sensors (US-customers envy us !), amongst others.
    for the beginning, it was clear that the european deliveries would trail the US-CAN-deliveries. (however, the delay is now huge !)


    what I personally find very disappointing, is the fact that -as it looks to be- Tesla will not honor all clients equally. that is : order of production and delivery will be in no relation to the reservation number.

    It would be wise (and fair) to
    -first deliver all Sig's (honor the premium and high deposit)
    -deliver R's (honor your first clients !)
    -and then deliver the P's - all in sequence with ref. to the reservation number.

    I can appreciate that EU-cars will need to pass Tilburg for 'assembly', whilst the NO and CH-cars will be shipped to the resp. countries directly.
    Thus, a longer transfer-time from Fremont to the client.

    But, what we see now, is that for some strange reason, unknown to us and not elaborated by Tesla, NO(andCH)-cars are prioritised. Why ?
    They are produced before other EU-cars.
    Seems that even NO-P's will be delivered before EU-Sig's. That is no way to treat the Sig-reservation holders.

    I'm convinced that X-SIG reservations will be put at risk this way. Why would EU-X-fans pay a huge deposit and eventually a premium, in view of the way EU-S-Sigs were honored ?


    I urge Tesla to produce according to reservation number. Don't prioritise on country ! (remark : even not to finalise-order, as not everybody was invited to finalise in sequence by Tesla!)

    I also urge Tesla to communicate delivery windows to all european clients. We see short delivery times in the US, and some EU-reservation holders for years are left in vain.

    We have seen great communication skills towards the press - please communicate equally outstanding to your advocates : your clients.
     

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