I don't think they need to add that quickly. A lot of people, like me, do 99% of our charging at home and/or work. I only need Superchargers on trips, or high volume driving days.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
European Model 3 CCS plug: could it be sign that US Superchargers will offer CCS plugs?
- Thread starter Ulmo
- Start date
I don't think they need to add that quickly. A lot of people, like me, do 99% of our charging at home and/or work. I only need Superchargers on trips, or high volume driving days.
TT97
Active Member
The 99% has always been the case, but that 1% is growing exponentially. And as Tesla is moving downmarket, there will be a higher percentage of owners who can't charge at home or work.
As it is, superchargers in L.A. are often 100% occupied.
KootsChewt
Member
Much easier to provide a "Tesla" AC adapter to J1772 to allow connection to HPWC then to swap all the cords on the HPWC (or provide a CCS to "Tesla" DC adapter) I would think. Maybe NA stays with the proprietary standard... just seems that the EU change is an indicator of what happens here too at some point.
The sooner they switch in the US, the cheaper it will be. The longer they delay, the more cars, Superchargers and WC cables they will need to swap out.
diamond.g
Active Member
For the US since they have sold so many 3’s already I would think that if they were going to use CCS they would have switched the NA 3’s over before hand, like they are doing in EU. The profit making Tesla isn’t doing to give away a CCS adapter in NA and I am not sure if folks will like the idea of paying $500 (see chademo adapter) for one.
New requirements for Supercharger V3, if any, would be the only motivation to change the North American charge port. My feeling is that Tesla believes that putting CCS on the Model 3 in Europe (and therefore the rest of the world) was necessary to increase market acceptance. I think that is the correct decision. I also think that North America is too far down the road with the proprietary inlet to change without a REALLY good reason. I think there is a good chance that liquid cooling the cable pins for the existing charge port will be sufficient to achieve 500A current levels for V3. Tesla will eventually have to go to higher voltages to get charge rates above 200kW.
Exactly.
In Europe Tesla had laws getting in the way of staying proprietary and they have much more competition.
In North America there aren't laws restricting them, and they're so dominant, it'd be really stupid to switch to CCS at this point. They'd be helping the competition.
Last edited:
theredviper
Member
Let's be honest, the Tesla connector is awesome. Going to CCS would suck. I don't see Apple going to USB-C (even though they agreed to the standard and it's a better connector...) 
Eno Deb
Active Member
Why? For one thing, the CCS connector supports higher charging currents. I suspect the Tesla connector is close to its limits with the relatively small (and relay-switched) power pins, so they may have to switch anyway for "Supercharger 3" (if such a thing exists).
Check out the latest Ipad Pro.I don't see Apple going to USB-C (even though they agreed to the standard and it's a better connector...)
And how many of the cars charging in L.A. are ones with FUSC and are using them just to save a buck? Now that FUSC is gone for new cars, hopefully forever, we should see that the demand doesn't grow as rapidly as the fleet.
TT97
Active Member
While I like to believe someone spending $80k+ for a car isn't going out of his way to save $10, I have resigned to the fact that is not the case. Whenever I get asked by skeptics how long it takes me to charge, my default answer is 10 seconds - 5 seconds to plug in and 5 seconds to unplug the next morning - what the car does while I'm sleeping is not taking any time out of my day. My time is worth more than the $10-20 I can save and not wasting it driving to SC and siting there while it is charging (especially if you need to wait for a stall and getting throttled charging).
However, with 6 free months they are doing now, there will still be over 100k cars out there at any time with free charging and with more and more people not being able to charge at home, there will be an ever growing number of people that need places to charge.
At the end of 2017, Tesla had sold 160k cars to date in the U.S. (excluding Roadsters), In the first 11 months this year, Tesla has sold 159k cars but their supercharger stalls only grew 39% in 2018 and there is only another 19% under construction or permitted. Tesla had one stall for every 42 cars at end of 2017, they are now at 1 stall for every 60 cars. By next year, they will probably be one stall per 75-80 cars. While I was waiting for my 3, there were a ton of locations on their page slated for "2017 opening" which became "2018 opening" which have now just disappeared. It is understandable that many of these were shelved as it was more important for Tesla to show a profit but it doesn't take away from the fact that their network is not keeping up with their fleet.
Adding CCS can expand their charging options without needing the capital/lease costs in improving their infrastructure.
I made a mock-up recently what a U.S. Model 3 would look like with both Tesla and U.S. CCS connectors. They should fit similar to China where Model 3 gets dual connectors underneath the same flap.
Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD
Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD
The difference is that the implementation you pictured above requires additional high power DC switching and AC switching. The Chinese ports are dedicated AC and DC connectors, so no switching is required. One port goes to the onboard charger and the other goes straight to the battery with simple on/off switching, not A/B/Off switching.
Yes, the Chinese setup (corrected link to a pic of it) may well technically be the simpler one. That said, I am not convinced such technical considerations would stop Tesla from going the dual connector route in the U.S., if they otherwise felt it made sense... for example, to make best use of existing Supercharger/Destination Charger/HPWC and evolving CCS infrastructure in the U.S. As noted, Supercharger V3 could also play some part in this equation...
That is a big "if" still, for many other reasons, of course.
Food for thought, anyway!
Last edited:
Supercharger V3 is the only compelling reason to change the port on the vehicles. However, if they implement a cooling system in the Supercharger connector, they can probably increase the current by the required amount. Other changes necessary for V3 would only apply to newer vehicles that could internally accept more power. Existing vehicles like the Classic Model S 85 can't take any more power anyway. The cooled handle would just prevent some of the throttling that has been observed at high usage sites due to charge port and handle overheating.Yes, the Chinese setup (corrected link to a pic of it) may well technically be the simpler one. That said, I am not convinced such technical considerations would stop Tesla from going the dual connector route in the U.S., if they otherwise felt it made sense... for example, to make best use of existing Supercharger/Destination Charger/HPWC and evolving CCS infrastructure in the U.S. As noted, Supercharger V3 could also play some part in this equation...
That is a big "if" still, for many other reasons, of course.
Perhaps the only compelling reason to change the port entirely. And indeed this may be why Tesla did so in Europe, given that the European Mennekes derived port probably is not enough for Supercharger V3...
But in the U.S. to add a secondary CCS port next to the proprieatary Tesla port underneath the same charging flap is different IMO. That could be compelling just to give owners easy access to the growing CCS charging network and thus not give the competition any regional or capacity benefits with charging access, but have the best of both charging worlds.
Since it's going to be a long time before there are a significant number of high powered CCS chargers actually deployed, it doesn't make sense for Tesla to pay much attention to them at this point. In 5 years or so, if there are a significant number of them actually available, Tesla can make some kind of adapter, but it's way premature at this point.
Personally, I'd give CCS in the US maybe a 50% chance of going anywhere in the next 10 years or longer since none of the manufacturers, nor any government agencies, seem to have any interest in building out a network like Tesla's Supercharger network. As long as BEV's are compliance and greenwashing products, I don't see any serious CCS network in the US.
Personally, I'd give CCS in the US maybe a 50% chance of going anywhere in the next 10 years or longer since none of the manufacturers, nor any government agencies, seem to have any interest in building out a network like Tesla's Supercharger network. As long as BEV's are compliance and greenwashing products, I don't see any serious CCS network in the US.
The 2 Billion Dollars that VW must spend from the Dieselgate settlement will build a significant network in the USA, called Electrify America. It won't match the Supercharger network, but it will be worth mentioning and for some people their sites may be more convenient. However, I don't see enough people paying Tesla for a second vehicle inlet such that it would be worthwhile for Tesla to offer such an option. It is also technically difficult to make a CCS adapter that can safely pass 150kW to the Tesla inlet. Making a 50kW CCS adapter is not worth the trouble.
EA won't have their network up for many years outside of California, and even then it won't be close to the Supercharger network is today, much less then. That's why I said it would be worth looking again in 5 years when EA has some of it's interstate system up.
My personal opinion still is that that second look will come to the same conclusion as today. CCS is, and will be, a minor player in the US unless the car manufacturers start a really significant CCS buildout. But, I'm extremely doubtful they're going to do anything like that.
Similar threads
