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Europeanizing needed for the Model S

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The intention of this post and thread is to try to list things that seriously needs to be europeanized (for lack of better word) on the Model S.

It is not a wishlist of the type "my Audi/BMW/Mercedes has this feature and I want it on the MS too".

It is not to bash anything. I love the MS but would like to see it more "Europeanized" in it's European version. It would seriously help sales in the EU as well...

It is supposed as a list of seriously missing things. Either being outright non-compliant with EU regulations (or soon to come into force regulations), missing important safety features or missing what is generally expected of every car in Europe.
With "every car" I don't mean high end cars, I litteraly mean almost every new car (European brand or not). Such as Volvo, Renault, VW (incl. sub-brands), Peugeot, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Mazda, etc., etc.

Euro-NCAP tested
This needs to be done. But perhaps some of the things listed below will yield a low score...

Back whiplash protection
Seems kind of bad but really unknown until Euro NCAP tested.

Front whiplash protection
No active protection as far as what is known. Has been available/standard in European cars for 10-15 years...

Tyres
In Europe, cars come with summer tyres. For a car of the MS type, that would be big brand high performance tyres such as Michelin PilotSport, Continental SportContact, Pirelli P-Zero or similar. The MS comes with a crappy "allround" tyre. In the Nordic countries, it's not even allround since it's illegal in the winter.

CCS charging adapter
Not a safety thing but urgently needed. We are starting to get CCS only DC stations capable of 50 KW or more.
These stations are a great compliment to the superchargers since they are (will be soon) many more and closer spaced.


These are the things that I currently know of. If you know more, please list and I'll update.
 
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…/ Front whiplash protection
No active protection. Has been available in European cars for 15-20 years... /…
Saab was first in -97 with Saab Active Head Restraint – SAHR. Volvo came second in -98 with WHIplash Protection System – WHIPS. Don’t know who scored the bronze medal… So that would make it 15-16 years provided that you drove a Saab or a Volvo… :rolleyes:


Sources:

gizmag | Saab pro-active restraint system

INSURANCE INSTITUTE FOR HIGHWAY SAFETY – IIHS | Whiplash injuries much less likely to occur in cars with new seat/head restraint combination, advanced crash tests show
 
Saab was first in -97 with Saab Active Head Restraint – SAHR. Volvo came second in -98 with WHIplash Protection System – WHIPS. Don’t know who scored the bronze medal… So that would make it 15-16 years provided that you drove a Saab or a Volvo… :rolleyes:


Sources:

gizmag | Saab pro-active restraint system

INSURANCE INSTITUTE FOR HIGHWAY SAFETY – IIHS | Whiplash injuries much less likely to occur in cars with new seat/head restraint combination, advanced crash tests show

I had a SAAB 2002 93S and had no idea it included a pro-active restraint system. Glad I never needed it:smile:
 
Did crash with a bus hitting me in the back of the car. No injuries at all and no issues with the neck. In a car with whiplashprotection. Happy i was. Did x-ray etc to be sure and for future insurance claims. The car was beyond repair. Last winter spikes saved me from two crashes due to black ice. Securiity features I think is core. Tesla seem to be extremely safe to crash in. But if adding active whiplash protection, headlight cleaning, foglights, autobraking, real summer tires and real winter tires etc will make it even better.
 
Back whiplash protection
A joke as it is right now. Proper headrests in the back is a safety feature.
There's nothing to suggest that the current MS headrests are less safe than any other headrests.

Trunk safety curtain (adjustable)
Between trunk and back seat. Also pretty much standard on every European car that has an opening from the trunk to the back seat.
The parcel shelf isn't adjustable, but it does the trick.

Tyres
In Europe, cars come with summer tyres. For a car of the MS type, that would be big brand high performance tyres such as Michelin PilotSport, Continental SportContact, Pirelli P-Zero or similar. The MS comes with a crappy "allround" tyre. In the Nordic countries, it's not even allround since it's illegal in the winter.
The 19" regular tires are Goodyear Eagle RSA2, the 21" tires come Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. The latter are at least pretty good tires.

When it comes to winter tires Tesla Norway delivers Nokian Hakka R2, Nokian Hakkapeliitta 4, as well as Pirelli.
 
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There's nothing to suggest that the current MS headrests are less safe than any other headrests.
When I tested the MS I sat in the backseat. My torso had just the right length for my head to be just above the headrest and it still fit nicely between the headrest and the roof (pano roof). For me, a whiplash from that sitting position would have been severe (possibly even fatal). So I wouldn't feel safe riding in the back seat without sliding down in the seat some which resulted in a very uncomfortable position.
I'm 185 cm (between 6' and 6'1") tall.


The parcel shelf isn't adjustable, but it does the trick.
Partly. Unless you need to load something that doesn't fit under it but very nicely fit otherwise.
This kind of thing is standard in a Skoda, Ford, VW or other cheap car...

The 19" regular tires are Goodyear Eagle RSA2, the 21" tires come Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. The latter are at least pretty good tires.

When it comes to winter tires Tesla Norway delivers Nokian Hakka R2, Nokian Hakkapeliitta 4, as well as Pirelli.

I was talking about the standard tyres. Since standard for every European car sold in Europe seems to be summer tyres as standard.
This shouldn't even be expensive for Tesla, just equip the MS with 19" for Europe with decent summer tyres instead...

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Saab was first in -97 with Saab Active Head Restraint – SAHR. Volvo came second in -98 with WHIplash Protection System – WHIPS. Don’t know who scored the bronze medal… So that would make it 15-16 years provided that you drove a Saab or a Volvo… :rolleyes:


Sources:

gizmag | Saab pro-active restraint system

INSURANCE INSTITUTE FOR HIGHWAY SAFETY – IIHS | Whiplash injuries much less likely to occur in cars with new seat/head restraint combination, advanced crash tests show

Thanks. Corrected the first post.
 
When I tested the MS I sat in the backseat. My torso had just the right length for my head to be just above the headrest and it still fit nicely between the headrest and the roof (pano roof). For me, a whiplash from that sitting position would have been severe (possibly even fatal).
And you are a medical doctor specializing in neck injuries? If not, you are just speculating.

Partly. Unless you need to load something that doesn't fit under it but very nicely fit otherwise.
This kind of thing is standard in a Skoda, Ford, VW or other cheap car...
Some have it, others don't. It's a matter of preference more than anything else.

I was talking about the standard tyres. Since standard for every European car sold in Europe seems to be summer tyres as standard.
This shouldn't even be expensive for Tesla, just equip the MS with 19" for Europe with decent summer tyres instead...
I could agree it would be better if they had different standard tires, but this is again a matter of preference.
 
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There's nothing to suggest that the current MS headrests are less safe than any other headrests.

The parcel shelf isn't adjustable, but it does the trick.

The 19" regular tires are Goodyear Eagle RSA2, the 21" tires come Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. The latter are at least pretty good tires.

When it comes to winter tires Tesla Norway delivers Nokian Hakka R2, Nokian Hakkapeliitta 4, as well as Pirelli.

The goodyears are allyear crap... The PS2 is great summer tires. I thin you mean Hakka 7 or 8... The pirellis are european type wintertires meaning garbage in snow and ice but good to around 0 celsius...

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Regarding the headrests... They are for design and looks. A joke in size and very easy to miss in an offset crash... So easy to understand the risk with those... Yes you have a model S but please dont go defensive regarding improvements. No car is perfect.,guess what i have one on order and this is no dealbreakers but ask for future improvements... BTW. Would love to see an expert on whiplash protection and injuries to test and do a judgement of that in rhe model s. Especially in the back including the slooped roof and the saying that it would protect... Good to understand the risks when owning the car.
 
The goodyears are allyear crap... The PS2 is great summer tires. I thin you mean Hakka 7 or 8... The pirellis are european type wintertires meaning garbage in snow and ice but good to around 0 celsius...
Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7, is what I meant. (Was going by memory.)

There is of course a big difference between the nordic winter tires and the winter tires they use further south, but Germany is of course also Europe, where the Pirellis are great, and teh Goodyears are quite acceptable, so it's not a matter of "Europeanizing" the Model S by offering Nordic winter tires, like matbl suggested.
 
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Yes Europe is a very diverse region. But making something Euorready would include adapting to each market you enter. F r example tesla dont have the standard "vagnsskada" that all new cars in sweden do have. It cuts the insurance costs in half during the first three years that this extra manufacturing insurance is in effect. Not sure what this would be called in English. But it do make the car less attractive as it add a lot of cost vs a similar BMW etc. Just another example. Again not dealbreaker but can explain carmagazine test opinions and stuff that do influence sales in a country. Guess why US car sell extremely bad in Europe in general vs other non-european brands like Korean, Japanese etc...
 
Now I'm a bit suspicious. Wouldn't the NHTSA safety testing include whiplash check? If it did, then how come did Model S get the highest rating for personal injury prevention and safety? Would be nice to see Euro NCAP test results as well, but I'm fairly certain the results will be the same.
From the NHTSA test results:

2013 Tesla Model S 5 HB RWD | Safercar -- NHTSA

Note the descriptions under: Safety Features > Seat Belts and Head Restraints > Dynamic Head Restraint and Head Restraints

partial.png
 
I'm not claiming that it's there. I'm claiming that did they really give a high safety rating and low probability of injury without testing for whiplash? If they did test for it, then the whole discussion is moot as it doesn't matter how it's achieved as long as it's achieved. If they didn't test, then we need to wait for Euro NCAP.
 
Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7, is what I meant. (Was going by memory.)

There is of course a big difference between the nordic winter tires and the winter tires they use further south, but Germany is of course also Europe, where the Pirellis are great, and teh Goodyears are quite acceptable, so it's not a matter of "Europeanizing" the Model S by offering Nordic winter tires, like matbl suggested.

I never suggested they add winter tyres as standard. That wouldn't make any sense for most of Europe.
What I suggest is to ship it with summer tyres as standard in Europe.

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I'm not claiming that it's there. I'm claiming that did they really give a high safety rating and low probability of injury without testing for whiplash? If they did test for it, then the whole discussion is moot as it doesn't matter how it's achieved as long as it's achieved. If they didn't test, then we need to wait for Euro NCAP.

I remember reading somewhere that the NHTSA testing doesn't include whiplash in either front or back. That's why Euro NCAP testing is so important.

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It's almost never standard, but you can get it (trunk safety curtain) as extra equipment for most wagons. For hatchbacks like the Model S I think it is very unusual to offer it. It's not available for the Leaf and I suspect it's not available for the Audi A7 either.

?
I don't think I've seen a newer station wagon without it. No matter if it's a Volvo, VW, BMW, Toyota, etc. But maybe it's just in Sweden.
Can someone from Germany, UK, France, or other western european country clarify how it is in their countries?

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And you are a medical doctor specializing in neck injuries? If not, you are just speculating.
Since the headrest ended on the lower half of the neck and I could tilt my head all the way back it was quite obvious that the headrest wouldn't protect from whiplash. As for the exact injury, you are right it was just speculation.
 
I'm not claiming that it's there. I'm claiming that did they really give a high safety rating and low probability of injury without testing for whiplash? If they did test for it, then the whole discussion is moot as it doesn't matter how it's achieved as long as it's achieved. If they didn't test, then we need to wait for Euro NCAP.
I have searched for a result regarding whiplash injury in the NHTSA test score. The test score is ‘behind’ that hyperlink (Post #16). And I can’t see any mentioning of them having performed such a test. Can you?


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Can you try to explain what the heck this vagnsskada is :)
It might be a nitpick, but it’s only one s, so vagnskada – which in turn is somewhat of a short for vagnskadegaranti.

As I understand it, it is a guarantee from the dealer that covers all damages to a new car in an accident if the accident is the driver's/buyer's/owner’s fault (And if the accident were someone else’s fault, then he/she who is to blame will have to cover it with their vagnskada/insurance.).

This guarantee is valid for ~3 years (again, only for new cars) starting from the time of purchase. It basically covers this part of what the buyer/owner would otherwise have to cover through insurance. So consequently the buyer/owner 'only' has to cover all the other eventualities through an insurance of their own for the first 3 years of their ownership.

As an example: For a CNG VW Passat ‘Sports’ Wagon (the national average is ~50%[SUP]1[/SUP] recycled methane from bio-waste), about 25% of the insurance cost is covered by the vagnskada these first three years. For this car the insurance cost would otherwise be about 450€/year. So instead it ends up at about 330€/year.

As I understand it, this vagnskada concept may not be that common outside of Sweden.


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On second thought though, I suspect Swedes end up paying for this part-insurance anyway through a slightly higher price for new cars. Therefore this whole vagnskada–issue is probably a wash... No?


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[SUP]1[/SUP]Taking number from memory. And this number is perhaps 1-2 years old. So, grain of salt applies.
 
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