Europeanizing needed for the Model S

[AustinPowers]

With such poor sales in Germany, I am not sure we'll see very many changes coming. It's sort of a vicious circle, bad sales lead to less supercharger installation, which lead to more bad sales, which leads to companies ignoring markets completely. I think the thing that makes it even worse is Elon personally had such high hopes for german tesla sales. Maybe other parts of Europe can make up for lackluster German interest and we'll see some changes made to the car.

Well, I wouldn't call sales here lackluster, but the problem is that Elon has highly overestimated the Model S's appeal to German customers. Some others from Germany here as well as I have often posted about some of those aspects, sometimes I have even been attacked for my postings by Model S die-hard fans who can't seem to understand that this car is not the ultimate in personal mobility.

Model S is a great car, especially a great first offering for a small company like Tesla without a century long history of making cars like Mercedes, Renault and the like.
But it also has many shortcomings. Shortcomings that other cars sold here in Germany don't have, especially cars in the price category of Model S.
And while we here on the forum are EV fans und enthusiasts, most people in Germany aren't. In part thanks to the decision by our government to not help EV sales through subsidies like in Norway, the Netherlands, etc.

If you look at the sales numbers of expensive cars here in Germany in 2014, I think Model S fares quite well actually. Take current March new registrations for example:

BMW 7-series: 281
Audi A7/S7/RS7: 334
Model S: 143

For a newcomer company selling a pure BEV that hardly anybody knows of here, logging about half the registrations of the tried and trusted 7-series is quite a feat imho.

Compare that to the numbers of other "exotic" cars (i.e. cars that are considered exotic on our streets) of comparable size, price or performance:

Maserati Quattroporte: 16
Lexus GS: 24
Chevrolet Corvette: 12
Volvo 80: 44

Model S sold more than these four (plus quite a few others) combined!

Elon was just a little too optimistic.

 

[Lerxt]

Austin makes very good points and I really hope Tesla is inspired to improve the vehicle, particularly the interior design, to be able to compete with the German manufacturers. Tesla's trump card is the drive train and once other makers get their act together, they will need to have made dramatic improvements inside.

 

[SebastianR]

Well, I wouldn't call sales here lackluster [...]
If you look at the sales numbers of expensive cars here in Germany in 2014, I think Model S fares quite well actually. Take current March new registrations for example:

BMW 7-series: 281
Audi A7/S7/RS7: 334
Model S: 143

For a newcomer company selling a pure BEV that hardly anybody knows of here, logging about half the registrations of the tried and trusted 7-series is quite a feat imho.

Everything you say very much so! Plus: keep in mind Germans rarely "jump on the latest hype immediately". So give it time. Sales will come over time. The iPhone was not a big success in Germany initially and now sells there just as well as in other countries.

Also, to crack the German market, make a few deals with the guys that manage the company car process. Most cars the size/cost of a Model S are company cars and if the car is not part of the "pool of available cars to chose from" you will not sell a single car...

 

[dirkhh]

Germans buy German cars. Compare Lexus vs. BMW/Mercedes in Germany. The ratio is 1:100. Elsewhere? About 1:1.
Elon vastly overestimated the available market in Germany.

 

[matbl]

Germans buy German cars. Compare Lexus vs. BMW/Mercedes in Germany. The ratio is 1:100. Elsewhere? About 1:1.
Elon vastly overestimated the available market in Germany.

That ratio is the same here in sweden. And I've seen few Lexus in the european countries I've toured in. So I think it's a european vs US thing.

Another comment about Germany. As someone observed, they don't jump on the latest hype. Also, if you promise something like superchargers or higher Autobahn speeds, Germans expect you to deliver on your promise first and on time and then they will consider buying your product.

 

[AustinPowers]

Germans buy German cars. Compare Lexus vs. BMW/Mercedes in Germany. The ratio is 1:100. Elsewhere? About 1:1.

Actually I have to agree with matbl here. It is not just in Germany.

And Model S is the perfect example against your theory. Again, look at the numbers I posted. Model S's 143 registrations alone already almost match Lexus's total of 165.
Which is small wonder as Lexus cars are seen here as not very attractive but rather overpriced Toyotas with crappy reliability and absolutely no image value.
Otoh that says a lot about Model S, which from scratch seems to be seen as quite an attractive proposition (which it definitely is, as we know), considering it hasn't been around for ages like Lexus, plus it is a geeky "novelty item", at least to the German mentality.

 

[Twoeagle]

143 Model S's in Germany isn´t bad Hopefully this will increase when more Tesla´s get on the road and the SC stations pop up!

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Tesla Model S registrations in Germany:

January - 30
Februrary - 60
March - 143

Sales have doubled every month. Give it time.

 

[snooper77]

Tesla Model S registrations in Germany:

January - 30
Februrary - 60
March - 143

Sales have doubled every month. Give it time.

Fair enough, but two samples of doubling figures are hardly anywhere near statistical significance.

 

[joetz]

Germans buy German cars. Compare Lexus vs. BMW/Mercedes in Germany. The ratio is 1:100. Elsewhere? About 1:1.
Elon vastly overestimated the available market in Germany.

In the US, BMW and Mercedes each last year sold about 40% more cars than Lexus, so it's hardly 1:1, but I see your point. Germans prefer their own products.


Elon should have known this and set his expectations a lot lower. He looks like a fool after saying germany was tesla's “top focus in the world” and he was planning some big investments in the country. After making those statements everyone's eyes have been on German sales and when they didn't impress the stock took a real beating.

 

[Hans69]

It's always the same story in Germany and France. They like only their own products, and the have something called 'It's not invented/build here' syndrome. They are both less opened minded to new products/solutions, especially if they are coming outside their own country. The more you go North in Europe, more early adapters you will find.

This is not only related to cars, but to almost everything.... Look how many years it took before Internet was adapted in France.... they had something called MiniTel (Minitel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), they sticked for ages to it...

Anyway ... it will come, but it takes some time..

 

[joetz]

Actually I have to agree with matbl here. It is not just in Germany.

And Model S is the perfect example against your theory. Again, look at the numbers I posted. Model S's 143 registrations alone already almost match Lexus's total of 165.
Which is small wonder as Lexus cars are seen here as not very attractive but rather overpriced Toyotas with crappy reliability and absolutely no image value.
Otoh that says a lot about Model S, which from scratch seems to be seen as quite an attractive proposition (which it definitely is, as we know), considering it hasn't been around for ages like Lexus, plus it is a geeky "novelty item", at least to the German mentality.

64% of Lexus sales in the USA are primarily the sales the ES sedan and RX crossover, which are primarily driven by old people who know nothing about cars. As those buyers trade in their cars for wheelchairs, the german automakers will absolutely bury lexus. Infiniti and acura are already on life support

Honestly if Tesla is going to take the fight to the Germans on their own turf they need to have more than just a superior powertrain. If they are going to succeed in Germany they are going to need to match or exceed the German big three in interior fit and finish and features and amenities. That means radar guided cruise control, night vision, lane departure warning systems, air conditioned seats, self-parking, the works. The interior isn't what you'd expect on a 100,000 dollar car. It's not even what you'd expect on an 50,000 dollar car. Lets be honest, great car, but the floor mats look like they are from walmart.

 

[dirkhh]

Walmart gets you better floor mats. Mine still roll over...
But I fully agree with your point. They are winning some enthusiast as buyers, a few hundred so far. But I don't think there's a chance for meaningful success in Germany with the current product. And the Model X will make no difference as large SUV sales in Germany are miniscule.

 

[Electroman]

I wouldn't call X as a large SUV. Perhaps a small crossover SUV like the LX RX 350

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

I wouldn't call X as a large SUV. Perhaps a small crossover SUV like the LX RX 350

Does anyone drive the biggest size of (American) SUVs in Europe? I don’t think there are many of those over here…


- - - Updated - - -

.../ Elon should have known this and set his expectations a lot lower. [1] He looks like a fool after saying germany was tesla's “top focus in the world” and he was planning some big investments in the country. [2] After making those statements everyone's eyes have been on German sales and when they didn't impress the stock took a real beating.

[My bold numbers within bracket parentheses. And my underline.]

1. Why?

2. I may have this one wrong, but they way I've understood Elon, the short term stock price roller coaster of TSLA isn’t exactly his first priority…

 

[mnx]

Exaggerate much? The interior of my Model S blows away the BMW 335d it replaced and it cost 50 grand... The list of features you mention are mostly gimmicky junk or features for people who can't drive.

If they are going to succeed in Germany they are going to need to match or exceed the German big three in interior fit and finish and features and amenities. That means radar guided cruise control, night vision, lane departure warning systems, air conditioned seats, self-parking, the works. The interior isn't what you'd expect on a 100,000 dollar car. It's not even what you'd expect on an 50,000 dollar car. Lets be honest, great car, but the floor mats look like they are from walmart.

 

[joetz]

Exaggerate much? The interior of my Model S blows away the BMW 335d it replaced and it cost 50 grand... The list of features you mention are mostly gimmicky junk or features for people who can't drive.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I had a 335d and thought the fit and finish and quality of materials was superior. There is no place in the 3-series where you will find a grade of carpeting as low-quality as what you find in the model s. Period

 

[7racer]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I had a 335d and thought the fit and finish and quality of materials was superior. There is no place in the 3-series where you will find a grade of carpeting as low-quality as what you find in the model s. Period

I'll have to at least chime in that I had a E46 M3 and the fit and finish was also crappy and not what I expected with the reputation of the BMW moniker. Also the car was in the shop for more issues than any of my other cars. While they tout that service was free, I soon realized that my time was more valuable if I was constant bringing the car in or if it left me stranded without power at an intersection.

 

[jbruce]

Yes, I also disagree. We have an '07 E90 335i and the interior design, materials and fit is way better than our Model S. Don't even get me started on modern BMW, Mercedes and Audi.

Having spent time living in Germany I can't imagine owning a Model S in Germany as my only car. Big sedans are inconvenient to drive around town in tight European cities so they are really targeted at people who travel. When you travel outside cities in Germany you are often on the autobahn. I can't imagine dealing with the Model S low top speed and limited range at high speed on the autobahn when you're paying over $100k for a car. There are so many great options for cars that serve that function in that price range. For me an M5 or M550d would be a no brainer in that context. Plus I would then be able to do weekends at the Nurburgring, which I did almost every open spring/summer weekend when I lived there. The Model S makes more sense in countries like the U.S. where you have absurdly low speed limits on the open highway and everyone cares more about stop light performance.

 

[joetz]

I'll have to at least chime in that u had a E46 M3 and the fit and finish was also crappy and not what I expected with the reputation of the BMW moniker. Also the car was in the shop for more issues than any of my other cars. While they tout that service was free, I soon realized that my time was more valuable if I was constant bringing the car in or if it left me stranded without power at an intersection.

I think my issue is that I'm not green, or an environmentalist. I'm a car enthusiast and I love driving. If I was fully into global warming or the "movement" I would probably make excuses for the car and say the interior quality and seats and fit and finish are better than the germans, but I can't do it with a straight face. I love the powertrain and the effortless acceleration, but the quality of the materials inside are not up to scratch. I am sure this will be addressed, just like GM fixed the corvette seats and interior after years of complaints.