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EV bandwagon time....let the fun begin.

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by Blue heaven, May 17, 2016.

  1. Blue heaven

    Blue heaven Member

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  2. EcoCloudIT

    EcoCloudIT Member

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    Oh dear, they have it wrong in my view, they should be reducing tax not increasing it.

    Not only is Tesla the only car with a +$100k price tag but it is reductions to make electric cars cheaper upfront that is a better option....so instead of having more tax on $100k+ car just get rid of LCT on such EVs, this actually makes a Tesla more affordable to more people.

    After owning an EV for 6mths I can see that governments providing, or funding charging infrastructure, is just plain silly. Again, provide tax reductions on larger battery cars to spark larger kms between charging, then provide money to those that wish to go solar with battery. Or here's a thought, provide a subsidy to ZCell (great Australian company) so that their battery costs far less upfront therefore makes economic sense to buy etc.

    Rich will spend on what they want, increasing the LCT will piss them off but it isn't going to make them buy a Tesla over a Merc if it's the Merc they want. Governments need to concentrate on trying to make Solar, battery storage and EV more economically achievable to the average Joe not attacking those with wealth to fund silly things like charging infrastructure or rego discounts.

    We all know business will take care of the charging infrastructure as more EVs come on the road, but Tesla owners know that most charging is done at home and that is where, from the green environmental standpoint, the Greens should be focusing their efforts. Local charging isn't really desperately needed on a 300km+ car...really only long distance fast chargers.

    -ECIT
     
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  3. Chuq

    Chuq Member

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    As I understand it, they are only proposing to increase tax on non-EVs over $100k.
     
  4. EcoCloudIT

    EcoCloudIT Member

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    Yes, as I say though it still won't make someone buy an EV over a non-EV in the well off segment of the market....they'll just be peaved off to be paying more tax and get over it and buy the car they want.

    Simple, get rid of LCT on EVs and focus on incentives for solar and battery storage in the homes....

    I just don't think charging the wealthy more tax to find infective spending is a good idea.

    I'm not saying I'm right by the way, but I know what the Greens are putting forward isn't right, effective and just typical of them.

    -ECIT
     
  5. Chuq

    Chuq Member

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    I agree that it is the upfront cost of the vehicle, not the amount of infrastructure, that makes the most sense. Even if not a single public charging station existed, almost all two-car families would be able to replace one of their cars with a Nissan Leaf and not be inconvenienced by the range at all. But the average petrol small car is $20k (new). Most people wouldn't pay $35-40k for their small car. Bring this down by $7500 or so - which could be a rebate, but could just as easily be removing tax/stamp duty - and you'd find uptake would increase.

    Then once every two-car household has one electric car, there is economic incentive for third parties to build charging facilities.
     
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  6. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    I'm worried the policy is light on detail, even if you agree with the 'Robin Hood' funding process.
    If they install a bunch of 15 Amp charging stations in the suburbs, that is a waste of money.
    What is needed are quick chargers consisting of CHADEMO and CCS2 quick charging stations in both urban locations and out to the surrounding regional areas so people can have the confidence that they can make an unplanned trip without too much inconvenience. Once EV numbers rise sufficiently to make the quick charge network profitable it can be sold just like they did with all the other utilities.
    A bit off topic and more controversially, they need to ban any further J1772 installations and legislate under ADR's to use the Europe type 2 CCS charging instead.
     
  7. Blue heaven

    Blue heaven Member

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    Chuq, Eco and yourself make some good points, the positive aspect here is the discussion on EVs will be brought into the mainstram audience and not just forums and the odd media grab.
     
  8. alpal

    alpal Member

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    The Greens (and Labor for that matter) have no other way than their now habitual concept of paying for their spending by taxing the rich. But I do agree with Blue heaven - it progresses the discussion.

    We'd better wake up soon - while the rest of the world transitions to EVs and the appropriate infrastructure through incentives to purchase, offering after purchase savings will do very little. What goes on in those meetings where they decide these things? It sounds as clearly thought through as solar feedback tariffs or maybe some clever insulation scheme.
     
  9. EcoCloudIT

    EcoCloudIT Member

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    If you want the average Australian to be able to afford an EV one needs to lower the cost of entry, then ways to bring the cost of home charging via solar/battery storage (kills two birds with one stone, environmentally and economically) being a secondary push.

    At $55k for a Model 3 (base) isn't a cheap car by anybodies definition so a way to bring down this would be ideal. Say we could get the same US$7,500 price reduction by just not charging the manufacture as much tax then this puts the Model 3 at $45k....add in the much reduced running costs of electricity and servicing and you now have a car that is cheaper than a Camry, Commodore, Falcon etc.

    The reason I believe the Model 3 is important is it optimises what a cheaper EV should be...sexy, not EV looking per se (like some of the other ugly offerings), 350+ km's on a charge, designed from the ground up to be an EV, and will fit 5 people and luggage...I'm sure more reasons can be offered like the SC network etc.

    -ECIT

    PS I would be happy if none of the incentives existed above $100K on EV's, should stop compliants by the average tax payer
     
  10. alpal

    alpal Member

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    The average tax payer doesn't pay the average amount of tax at the moment in our system so who cares. When they do, let's talk. Australians will always buy mainly based on price only so that is the area that needs attention, as you have said.

    And yes, I agree also with you, the model 3 is sexy (makes the S look downright 'simply irresistible')!
     
  11. paulp

    paulp Member

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    I doubt the greens understand anything they say
     
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  12. doctorwho

    doctorwho Member

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    They are the only party who have a qualified economist as their economic spokesperson rather than a lawyer, I doubt that Peter Whish-Wilson understands less about economic policy than ALP or Liberals, and I'm sure they understand more about environmental policy.
     
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  13. paulp

    paulp Member

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    I know plenty of qualified lawyers and economists. Being qualified doesn't mean they are good at what they do.
     
  14. EcoCloudIT

    EcoCloudIT Member

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    I think in all the parties defence maybe they (as in policy makers) should interview current EV owners right here in Australia to get a better idea of where the money would be best spent. I don't mean we should tell them, although I wouldn't mind ;-), however more ask as various questions that then lead to the correct policies.

    Of course, then we're banking of politicians being able to ask the right questions.

    -ECIT
     
  15. Blue heaven

    Blue heaven Member

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    Electric car drivers should be telling them, Politicians of any party should not be getting a photo opportunity with a shiny new Tesla unless they're prepared to listen, not telling them about some free rego or a tax break but ask them ' do you understand anything about the electric vehicle world? Can you see the bigger picture? Can you see the long term benefits of electric vehicles in this country? Do you understand it's not just about the environment? All the major parties, both federal and state need to wake up and take this seriously before an avalanche of EVs hit this country.
     

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