EV Charger Options

[Dhrucku]

Hi

About to get some quotes in for work relating to the EV charger being installed on my property.

Seen some of the posts on here and it looks like Octopus Go seems to be a no brainer so will be moving off my SVR on e-on to Go at some point in the next few weeks. Also just seen that Octopus offer the full shebang in relation to chargers with respectable prices (I think).

Question is, is there any noticeable difference in me going with Octopus Go for a full package as opposed to going with a private EV charger install and then switching to Go...seems more rational just to get GO to do it all and then switch.

 

[RCMY]

Suggest cost is biggest factor unless you have solar. If have Solar, you might want to look at a Zappi.

 

[Dhrucku]

Suggest cost is biggest factor unless you have solar. If have Solar, you might want to look at a Zappi.

Which is cheaper as an overall?
I see most quotations in and around a grand which seems to be standard. Looks like GO offer a good £999 package which gets me in their books as a GO customer and install which seems reasonable? Are private fitters considerably lower (aware this is totally dependant but ballpark?)

Don't have solar.

 

[ACarneiro]

I thought the Go tariff was no longer available to new signups and they’re really only offering Intelligent now?

 

[Adopado]

Seen some of the posts on here and it looks like Octopus Go seems to be a no brainer so will be moving off my SVR on e-on to Go at some point in the next few weeks.

The goal posts have shifted several times pricewise. For most people Go will be advantageous over a standard tariff but you need to check the numbers for your own estimated consumption for both car and household. The non-peak rate (i.e. most of your household usage) will actually be higher than a standard tariff at present. The advantage is because you will be using a good chunk of electricity charging an EV on cheap rate. It may be a no-brainer for people like me who approximately use the same number of kWhs charging the car as I do for running the house over the course of the year ... that means my averaged payment per kWh is much less than a standard tariff. For people who have all electic heating and use a lot of electricity running the home that cannot be squeezed into off-peak hours then the calculation will be different, and possibly not so advantageous.

 

[WKUK]

I cannot comment on the Energy Company provided chargers, but we had a Tesla Wall Connector installed and then switched onto Intelligent Octopus without any issues. I believe the charger plus labour was around £1,200 but we preferred having the Tesla unit for aesthetics and perceived ease of use, one app for car and charger etc etc

Switch over process from E-ON to Octopus was painless but the main delay in final set up being waiting for a smart meter. I would recommend choosing a provider and getting their smart meter installed as soon as possible (all standard tariffs are at the same capped rate so no risk doing that before you choose a specific EV tariff)

We chose Octopus, and then did the maths on IO v. Go. For us IO was the sensible choice and have found the charging process straight forward so far

Looking at past usage we calculated average use of 350 kWh of household electricity per month, and then another 300 kWh for the car

650 kwh @ £0.35 = £227.50
v.
350 kWh @ £0.44 = £154
300 kWh @ £0.10 = £30
Total - £184

In practise we are seeing better results than calculated as we time shift the high demand electricity stuff into the off peak period. That looks like a additional 50-75 kWh per month into the low tier.

Good luck @Dhrucku

 

[Dhrucku]

The goal posts have shifted several times pricewise. For most people Go will be advantageous over a standard tariff but you need to check the numbers for your own estimated consumption for both car and household. The non-peak rate (i.e. most of your household usage) will actually be higher than a standard tariff at present. The advantage is because you will be using a good chunk of electricity charging an EV on cheap rate. It may be a no-brainer for people like me who approximately use the same number of kWhs charging the car as I do for running the house over the course of the year ... that means my averaged payment per kWh is much less than a standard tariff. For people who have all electic heating and use a lot of electricity running the home that cannot be squeezed into off-peak hours then the calculation will be different, and possibly not so advantageous.

Good point, I'm not really a heavy electric user as it's just me and OH (expecting baby later this month though so could change). We have an immersion boiler in the loft which is heated for hot water once a day together with heating (gas) going on twice a day hour at a time. Think Octopus currently is the better route to go.

 

[SteveJol]

If you know a decent electrician the install can be cheap if straight forward.

I wanted the Tesla charger for aesthetics, I paid £425 for the charger direct from Tesla and just under £400 for the install (simple install as charger is located right next to meter box). So under £825 all in.

 

[MattG5]

I thought the Go tariff was no longer available to new signups and they’re really only offering Intelligent now?

From what I've seen the 5hr go faster tariff has gone and they are still offering the 4hr GO but it's no longer fixed, it's changed to a flexible tariff. IO also looks like it's now flexible.

 

[thewishy]

The "octopus energy" tariff and the "octopus energy services" EV charging are effectively unrelated. You don't need to buy an EV charger through octopus. That said, they're both good products.
On the EV charging, the prices are generally competitive, but you are still paying about 300-400 for the installation. Their standard installation makes a number of generally reasonable assumptions, for example that the cable run will be <10m.
Where you have a particularly easy installation (Eg your consumer unit is in the garage, and you want the charger in the garage), you might be able to find a spark to do the work for you cheaper. They're also pricing for running the cable across your skirting board, where (with some more effort) it could be done more neatly. Generally most will come out of it OK, and a lot of EV charging specialists want a lot of money to do the work.
A general spark would need £300-400 of kit and a half day training course to do an install, and many will not consider it worth the effort.

Only other thing worth pointing out is that Octopus Services are sticklers for the rules (Generally a good thing), so if your supply and consumer unit could be considered "Marginal", they'll say no rather than risk things. Also they won't get up on a ladder to do any work.

 

[Danny_F]

I swapped to octopus and I am just waiting for the arrival of the car, hopefully Q4 as have an EDD of 4-20 Dec. I am on Go at the moment and will change to IO when the car arrives.
I have a Zappi but have ordered solar and a PW2 so that is the main reason, and my electrician friend recommended the Zappi due to his experience of fitting and replacing hundreds of other ones.
If you are not already on octopus then feel free to hit me up for a referral code which will warn both of us £50 off our bills.
Good luck with whatever you choose and everyone has their own preferences for their own reasons, it is a minefield though and very confusing.

 

[SteveJol]

A general spark would need £300-400 of kit and a half day training course to do an install, and many will not consider it worth the effort.

There's no specialist kit or training needed. It's just running cable and a new RCD in the meter box (in most instances).

 

[thewishy]

There's no specialist kit or training needed. It's just running cable and a new RCD in the meter box (in most instances).

Kit: You need to test the RCD (Or more likely RCBO) functions correctly. To do that you need a test unit which you can plug in to. The unit provides the PWM signal to get the contactor to open, then expose test contacts for you to plug a megger unit (Or similar) in to for the RCD tests.
Training: The spark will likely need to know a lot more about pen faults than they would for general domestic work, and there are a few specific requirements around the RCD/RCBO (Dual pole, potentially specific types depending on DC leakage). There is also a scattergun of protection devices within the EVSE, for example some provide pen fault protection, but not dual pole RCD, others the RCD but not pen fault protection. So in some cases you'll need a specific RCBO, others you'll need a Matt:e. Quite a lot of faf for a domestic spark

You can certainly make it work without either, but you'd be cutting corners.

 

[SteveJol]

Kit: You need to test the RCD (Or more likely RCBO) functions correctly. To do that you need a test unit which you can plug in to. The unit provides the PWM signal to get the contactor to open, then expose test contacts for you to plug a megger unit (Or similar) in to for the RCD tests.
Training: The spark will likely need to know a lot more about pen faults than they would for general domestic work, and there are a few specific requirements around the RCD/RCBO (Dual pole, potentially specific types depending on DC leakage). There is also a scattergun of protection devices within the EVSE, for example some provide pen fault protection, but not dual pole RCD, others the RCD but not pen fault protection. So in some cases you'll need a specific RCBO, others you'll need a Matt:e. Quite a lot of faf for a domestic spark

You can certainly make it work without either, but you'd be cutting corners.

TBH for me that's standard kit for a sparky, I wouldn't be trusting any spark that didn't have the test kit you describe, RCD are commonplace and anyone who has ever installed a modern day consumer unit would have this, if they don't they aren't really fit to be called a sparky.

 

[thewishy]

TBH for me that's standard kit for a sparky, I wouldn't be trusting any spark that didn't have the test kit you describe, RCD are commonplace and anyone who has ever installed a modern day consumer unit would have this, if they don't they aren't really fit to be called a sparky.

You can't just stick the test probes in the type 2 socket though. They're not energised unless you send the right signal over the control connectors, so it's not possible to test unless you have something like this: EVSE Test Box - that isn't standard kit, and without it you can't test you've terminated the incoming cables correctly

 

[WannabeOwner]

EV charger being installed on my property

Dunno about rates etc. but I have a couple of "general" suggests

If your driveway has parking for two cars assume you will have 2 EVs soon / at some point.

I have 2xEV and 2x Wall Chargers. The wall chargers are spaced apart where the cars normally park ... with hindsight I wish I had mounted them in-between where the two cars go, the cables are long enough to reach ... but where they currently are, towards the extremities of each car, I can't reach one-from-other. It would just "be easier", that's all, and avoid some of the car-shuffles we do

We also put in a Commando-socket in case the Wall Charger broke, or for a visitors. We've used it enough times in 7 years that I'm glad I did it. My first Wall Charger brunt out ... GrannyCharger and Commando-adapter was just as fast as the wall charger until Sparky fitted the replacement.

Whilst Sparky was at it we also installed an outdoor-socket - e.g. for car cleaning. Surprising the number of builders etc. we've had here who have needed electricity and, in olden days, would have had a window wide open for that ... in mid Winter!

If your driveway has room for two cars consider "making provision" for a second wall charger - if there is any infrastructure that is worth doing - e.g. run a second armoured cable, to save drilling the walls again!

I have a Tesla Charger (long, very robust, cable - but dumb) and Zappi (much thinner cable, but of decent length, ability to do "Spill excess PV to car") and actually its benefit for me has been limited ,,, might work well for most-people / most-circumstances.

I have PV and Battery. On a sunny summer's day if I'm going out this afternoon I will charge car (from PV + Battery) this morning, deliberately deplete the PowerWall, and let it refill later. In fact my PV generates 15kW max ... no point charging PowerWall to full and only then having Zappi charge the car, as that max's out at 7kW ... so what I actually need is a solution that will charge "everything" at the same time, to stop the PowerWall filling up first and then there being too much juice for Car Charging. All neatly handled with a bit of software, but in effect the Zappi's ability to "spill excess PV to car" has become redundant for me.

I like that my chargers are dumb. I don't want them to be clever and sort out what charging I want. I have 2 cars and 2 chargers. Depending on who comes home / when / what other visitors we have ... and where they might have chosen to park if one of our EVs wasn't on the drive when they arrived ... I just want the CAR to say it wants to charge. The Charger being dumb is just fine.

If I have excess solar I have a pecking order for which car should get it ... i.e. the one that is going to needed for a forthcoming long journey. For anyone with a "run around EV" that will be "the other one" - but even then, once in a while, the run-around will need some Solar top-up - especially if the long-distance EV battery is already full ... with both plugged in my software can decide which-gets-what based on amount of Solar and whether either of the cars is below-min, or above-max.

My cars have a Charge Limit set suitable for "If it gets this low then charge overnight on off-peak" e.g. 50%, and then if there is excess Solar during the day they will top up to some higher limit (e.g. 90%)

One issue with this is that Tesla in-car CONFIG only has "Start at" (e.g. set to the start of Off Peak) and no "Stop at", so it won't stop when Cheap Rate ends. People (manually) set the Charge limit to, say, 30% more than current, in the knowledge that 30% overnight charge neatly matches their 4-hour off-peak tariff. Bit of a faff though ...

I use a 3rd party APP which stops the charge at end of Off Peak(*). That brings the 1st World Problem of the rare occasion when car will not be fully charged "tonight Off-Peak" and tomorrow I'm going somewhere which needs more charge. I haven't found an APP that lets me neatly override the default behaviour (but the API is well capable of allowing that type of "stuff" - "Alexa, make sure car is charged for 240 mile journey tomorrow")

I appreciate these are problems that arise more in a 2-EV family, but I suspect that for all current 1xEV +1xICE owners that is just a matter of time

In terms of Tarif I think the choice is for a 4-hour slot or Ecoonomy-7. The 4-hour slot will be a cheaper rate, but for a high mileage drivers may not be long enough. EVs will do 3 - 4 miles / kWh and there are some charging losses ... so 1 kWh in the battery might be 4 miles, but it might need, say, 10% extra "from the grid". And my driving style rarely gives me the full 4 miles

So ... a 7kW charger and driving 3.5 miles per kWh works out at around 25 miles per hour. 4 hours is 100 miles ... if you do more than that each day you need something else - either Economy-7, or charging-at-work so you only need to get there, and not back as well! If you do more than 100 miles once-in-a-while then let the car fully replenish over 2 nights, or on those rare occasions when you have "another long distance trip tomorrow" do some charging at Peak-Rate.

If you are going to have Solar PV then that car (or at least "One of them") needs to be at home on sunny days to make use of excess solar. Or you need a House-Battery

(*) The APP also does things like "Change to AMPs=32" ... during the day my car-charge AMPs for Solar may drop so that the car charges at about the same rate as PV generates ... but if that remains at, say, 5 AMPs then when I do actually want to charge overnight its helpful that my APP will actually reset to 32AMPs - otherwise I would get caught out!

 

[PITA]

Dunno about rates etc. but I have a couple of "general" suggests

If your driveway has parking for two cars assume you will have 2 EVs soon / at some point.

I have 2xEV and 2x Wall Chargers. The wall chargers are spaced apart where the cars normally park ... with hindsight I wish I had mounted them in-between where the two cars go, the cables are long enough to reach ... but where they currently are, towards the extremities of each car, I can't reach one-from-other. It would just "be easier", that's all, and avoid some of the car-shuffles we do

We also put in a Commando-socket in case the Wall Charger broke, or for a visitors. We've used it enough times in 7 years that I'm glad I did it. My first Wall Charger brunt out ... GrannyCharger and Commando-adapter was just as fast as the wall charger until Sparky fitted the replacement.

Whilst Sparky was at it we also installed an outdoor-socket - e.g. for car cleaning. Surprising the number of builders etc. we've had here who have needed electricity and, in olden days, would have had a window wide open for that ... in mid Winter!

If your driveway has room for two cars consider "making provision" for a second wall charger - if there is any infrastructure that is worth doing - e.g. run a second armoured cable, to save drilling the walls again!

I have a Tesla Charger (long, very robust, cable - but dumb) and Zappi (much thinner cable, but of decent length, ability to do "Spill excess PV to car") and actually its benefit for me has been limited ,,, might work well for most-people / most-circumstances.

I have PV and Battery. On a sunny summer's day if I'm going out this afternoon I will charge car (from PV + Battery) this morning, deliberately deplete the PowerWall, and let it refill later. In fact my PV generates 15kW max ... no point charging PowerWall to full and only then having Zappi charge the car, as that max's out at 7kW ... so what I actually need is a solution that will charge "everything" at the same time, to stop the PowerWall filling up first and then there being too much juice for Car Charging. All neatly handled with a bit of software, but in effect the Zappi's ability to "spill excess PV to car" has become redundant for me.

I like that my chargers are dumb. I don't want them to be clever and sort out what charging I want. I have 2 cars and 2 chargers. Depending on who comes home / when / what other visitors we have ... and where they might have chosen to park if one of our EVs wasn't on the drive when they arrived ... I just want the CAR to say it wants to charge. The Charger being dumb is just fine.

If I have excess solar I have a pecking order for which car should get it ... i.e. the one that is going to needed for a forthcoming long journey. For anyone with a "run around EV" that will be "the other one" - but even then, once in a while, the run-around will need some Solar top-up - especially if the long-distance EV battery is already full ... with both plugged in my software can decide which-gets-what based on amount of Solar and whether either of the cars is below-min, or above-max.

My cars have a Charge Limit set suitable for "If it gets this low then charge overnight on off-peak" e.g. 50%, and then if there is excess Solar during the day they will top up to some higher limit (e.g. 90%)

One issue with this is that Tesla in-car CONFIG only has "Start at" (e.g. set to the start of Off Peak) and no "Stop at", so it won't stop when Cheap Rate ends. People (manually) set the Charge limit to, say, 30% more than current, in the knowledge that 30% overnight charge neatly matches their 4-hour off-peak tariff. Bit of a faff though ...

I use a 3rd party APP which stops the charge at end of Off Peak(*). That brings the 1st World Problem of the rare occasion when car will not be fully charged "tonight Off-Peak" and tomorrow I'm going somewhere which needs more charge. I haven't found an APP that lets me neatly override the default behaviour (but the API is well capable of allowing that type of "stuff" - "Alexa, make sure car is charged for 240 mile journey tomorrow")

I appreciate these are problems that arise more in a 2-EV family, but I suspect that for all current 1xEV +1xICE owners that is just a matter of time

In terms of Tarif I think the choice is for a 4-hour slot or Ecoonomy-7. The 4-hour slot will be a cheaper rate, but for a high mileage drivers may not be long enough. EVs will do 3 - 4 miles / kWh and there are some charging losses ... so 1 kWh in the battery might be 4 miles, but it might need, say, 10% extra "from the grid". And my driving style rarely gives me the full 4 miles

So ... a 7kW charger and driving 3.5 miles per kWh works out at around 25 miles per hour. 4 hours is 100 miles ... if you do more than that each day you need something else - either Economy-7, or charging-at-work so you only need to get there, and not back as well! If you do more than 100 miles once-in-a-while then let the car fully replenish over 2 nights, or on those rare occasions when you have "another long distance trip tomorrow" do some charging at Peak-Rate.

If you are going to have Solar PV then that car (or at least "One of them") needs to be at home on sunny days to make use of excess solar. Or you need a House-Battery

(*) The APP also does things like "Change to AMPs=32" ... during the day my car-charge AMPs for Solar may drop so that the car charges at about the same rate as PV generates ... but if that remains at, say, 5 AMPs then when I do actually want to charge overnight its helpful that my APP will actually reset to 32AMPs - otherwise I would get caught out!

Very similar setup to us. But I've gone a bit further with the madness...

Driveway has outdoor 3 pin sockets on a digital timer controlled from inside the house. Perfect for Xmas lights, builders, and they're on the Gateway backup side so work during a blackout.

A 3-Phase Grid-Only 22kW Zappi charger on the furthest away side of the driveway on a tethered cable. This is perfect for rapid grid charging at any time without disturbing the Powerwalls or Solar. It's wired primary on L2, so at 7kW it doesn't need to load balance on the house Phase L1. Charging the Tesla at 11kW gives me about 60% charge in 4 hours, so it's very handy.

On the nearside of the driveway, an untethered 7kW Zappi Charger which is wired into a Tesla Gateway on the Grid-Tied side. So during a Grid Blackout it fails, so not to accidentally discharge the Powerwalls. This can charge from Grid or stored solar in Powerwalls at 7kW. Very handy as not restricted to minimum of 1.4kW Solar excess.

I've then run a permanent 15 meter charging cable, fixed by wall mounted security brackets, to the furthest side of the driveway. So whichever car parked over there has the option of 'green' Solar at 7kW, or 'black' Grid at 22kW (and yes, the cable connectors are colour coded).

Also, at the nearside driveway, I have a 32 amp Commando socket wired into the Gateway on the backup side. This means I can emergency charge at 7kW if I want to, during a blackout.

The setup works great, no load balancing needed (so no driver conflicts), Solar or Grid, off-grid charging options. Both sides of the driveway covered. Charge when you like and get what you expect.

Driveway Nearside

7kW Solar
7kW Grid
7kW Battery Backup

Driveway Offside

22kW Grid
7kW Solar

 

[WannabeOwner]

... and yes, the cable connectors are colour coded ...

 

[PITA]

The 22kW 3 Phase tethered charger is the standard 'Black' MyEnergi connector.

The 7kW 'Solar' charge cable is 'Green' and wall tied using a security wall bracket (doubles as a holder)... one at each end, and can be opened with a key to release the cable if needed. But with 15 metres I've got enough slack to pull it through the holder, and feed it back when finished.