EV charging megastations for apartment owners.

[DblOSmith]

Something else I might do if I had a few hundred million lying around. This plan is for city/urban/apartment charging. Take or build a giant garage fill them with EV chargers, eventually every single spot save for some employee spots or whatever. I'd invite whatever builder or charge point operator that wanted to join. Level 1, Level 2 and DCFC and faster stations. Make it open primarily for those who live in an apartment, perhaps with a subscription with a RFID key to get in. Maybe fill the first and second floor with various chargers, make the 3rd floor a coffee shop, lounge, bathrooms, arcade?, table and chairs to just hang out. Top floor, I'd keep a semi-rotating selection of various food trucks and a view of the city/surrounds with tables and chairs to eat. Clear signage like "350-500kW or less than one hour, 100-250 kW or 2 hours, 50 -100kw or over 2 hours, or >50kW or Overnight. Hire some knowledgeable person to groundskeep and put notes on all the low speed charging drivers pulling into 350 stalls and do some education to keep the flow going. Do tiered charging per max speed (or color) to incentivize people not to use a higher tier than they absolutely need. Maybe create an app for the building to order food and have it delivered straight to your car. Flying out for the holidays? Sign up for a yearly subscription and use our level 1s while away and get a complimentary ride to the airport! Things like that.

If apartment complexes are dragging their butts on putting in stations, then here is my proposal. I live in an apartment right now and I charge level 1 in my garage. I would charge at a place like this at least once a week to plan trips or get some work done, or just try some new food. Try different food carts to keep up interest. I'd gladly pay $10-15/month subscription for that kind of convenience. Thoughts?

 

[Earl]

Something else I might do if I had a few hundred million lying around. This plan is for city/urban/apartment charging. Take or build a giant garage fill them with EV chargers, eventually every single spot save for some employee spots or whatever. I'd invite whatever builder or charge point operator that wanted to join. Level 1, Level 2 and DCFC and faster stations. Make it open primarily for those who live in an apartment, perhaps with a subscription with a RFID key to get in. Maybe fill the first and second floor with various chargers, make the 3rd floor a coffee shop, lounge, bathrooms, arcade?, table and chairs to just hang out. Top floor, I'd keep a semi-rotating selection of various food trucks and a view of the city/surrounds with tables and chairs to eat. Clear signage like "350-500kW or less than one hour, 100-250 kW or 2 hours, 50 -100kw or over 2 hours, or >50kW or Overnight. Hire some knowledgeable person to groundskeep and put notes on all the low speed charging drivers pulling into 350 stalls and do some education to keep the flow going. Do tiered charging per max speed (or color) to incentivize people not to use a higher tier than they absolutely need. Maybe create an app for the building to order food and have it delivered straight to your car. Flying out for the holidays? Sign up for a yearly subscription and use our level 1s while away and get a complimentary ride to the airport! Things like that.

If apartment complexes are dragging their butts on putting in stations, then here is my proposal. I live in an apartment right now and I charge level 1 in my garage. I would charge at a place like this at least once a week to plan trips or get some work done, or just try some new food. Try different food carts to keep up interest. I'd gladly pay $10-15/month subscription for that kind of convenience. Thoughts?

Its hard to compete with charging at home on residential electricity rates. It won't be long before apartment owners realize that they have to put in EV charging in order to attract all but the most desperate tenants.
Sure, the charging center makes sense but I think what you're saying is that EVs take the focus away from the charging and put it toward the activity going on. They's why you want all the amenities.
Rather than charging centers with amenities, I see it more likely that places with amenities will begin offering more charging capabilities.
Remember, it is easy to add fast charging, unlike gas storage and pumps.

 

[DblOSmith]

Its hard to compete with charging at home on residential electricity rates. It won't be long before apartment owners realize that they have to put in EV charging in order to attract all but the most desperate tenants.
Sure, the charging center makes sense but I think what you're saying is that EVs take the focus away from the charging and put it toward the activity going on. They's why you want all the amenities.
Rather than charging centers with amenities, I see it more likely that places with amenities will begin offering more charging capabilities.
Remember, it is easy to add fast charging, unlike gas storage and pumps.

I definitely get your point. However, not everyone will be able to charge. Some apartments don't even have spaces for parking let alone charging while parking. I think stations like I've described will be essential in some areas. I also agree that adding fast charging is easier than gas storage and pumps, but if it were flat easy, it'd be ubiquitous already. Besides, I'm talking about convenience. Yes, strip malls can plumb wire to the far end of the parking lot 100 yards away and put up some chargers, but I'm talking about a place specifically designed for EV charging, where people can relax and work and not be rushed. A dynamic and inviting place.

 

[Earl]

I'm talking about a place specifically designed for EV charging, where people can relax and work and not be rushed

I understand what you say. I'm just not sure which will make most financial sense in the long run: adding amenities to a charging center or adding charging to places with amenities. Both?
The next 20 years will be almost as interesting to watch EVs progress as the last 30 that I've been watching.

 

[DblOSmith]

I understand what you say. I'm just not sure which will make most financial sense in the long run: adding amenities to a charging center or adding charging to places with amenities. Both?
The next 20 years will be almost as interesting to watch EVs progress as the last 30 that I've been watching.

I think it depends on if you're thinking short term or long term financial sense. Right now, people go to whatever charging station out of necessity. Usually it's the only one in town (even if due to lack of apartment charging). I'm talking about building a space that people actually WANT to go to, and with a subscription type model, we're talking about lots of long term revenue. True running cord to a corner of a Bed Bath and Beyond/Best Buy parking lot is definitely cheaper in the short term. However, I know if given the option, which one I'd prioritize.

 

[jboy210]

Something else I might do if I had a few hundred million lying around. This plan is for city/urban/apartment charging. Take or build a giant garage fill them with EV chargers, eventually every single spot save for some employee spots or whatever. I'd invite whatever builder or charge point operator that wanted to join. Level 1, Level 2 and DCFC and faster stations. Make it open primarily for those who live in an apartment, perhaps with a subscription with a RFID key to get in. Maybe fill the first and second floor with various chargers, make the 3rd floor a coffee shop, lounge, bathrooms, arcade?, table and chairs to just hang out. Top floor, I'd keep a semi-rotating selection of various food trucks and a view of the city/surrounds with tables and chairs to eat. Clear signage like "350-500kW or less than one hour, 100-250 kW or 2 hours, 50 -100kw or over 2 hours, or >50kW or Overnight. Hire some knowledgeable person to groundskeep and put notes on all the low speed charging drivers pulling into 350 stalls and do some education to keep the flow going. Do tiered charging per max speed (or color) to incentivize people not to use a higher tier than they absolutely need. Maybe create an app for the building to order food and have it delivered straight to your car. Flying out for the holidays? Sign up for a yearly subscription and use our level 1s while away and get a complimentary ride to the airport! Things like that.

If apartment complexes are dragging their butts on putting in stations, then here is my proposal. I live in an apartment right now and I charge level 1 in my garage. I would charge at a place like this at least once a week to plan trips or get some work done, or just try some new food. Try different food carts to keep up interest. I'd gladly pay $10-15/month subscription for that kind of convenience. Thoughts?

I can see that for condo high-end developments. Places you might expect to have a health facility, pool, etc. on premise.

But rental apartments are always going to be lower priority for charging as long as they are not treated as long-term housing for most people. Less than 20% of the US population lives in apartments. And often adding another $50-100/mo. for charging and other amenities makes the rent too high. Especially in the US where home ownership is something people prioritize and aspire to achieve.

 

[Unclepaul]

Might be easier for Starbucks to just install chargers in their parking lots.

 

[Earl]

I can see that for condo high-end developments. Places you might expect to have a health facility, pool, etc. on premise.

But rental apartments are always going to be lower priority for charging as long as they are not treated as long-term housing for most people. Less than 20% of the US population lives in apartments. And often adding another $50-100/mo. for charging and other amenities makes the rent too high. Especially in the US where home ownership is something people prioritize and aspire to achieve.

Yes. Just as today, rent for apartments without off-street parking, laundry in unit, air conditioning, and dishwashers are less desired rentals, those that refused to install indoor plumbing became the tenement slums back in the '20's and '30's.

I see EV charging being like somewhat like laundry and DCFC locations like public laundromats - a stopgap solution but not a long-term one. L2 charging, however, is cheaper than installing in-unit laundry. It only requires a 240v connection outdoors, not 240v (or natural gas), hot water, cold water, and sewer connections snaked inside the house.

 

[DblOSmith]

And often adding another $50-100/mo. for charging and other amenities makes the rent too high. Especially in the US where home ownership is something people prioritize and aspire to achieve.

I hear what you're meaning, but I couldn't disagree more. As high as rents are $50/month is nothing, especially if you're used to spending closer to $100/month in gasoline that now you won't have to.

 

[DblOSmith]

Very close to what I'm thinking.

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[Genie]

Very close to what I'm thinking.

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I like to think positively, but ask myself if I had that amount to invest, would I build this, or buy APPL (or whatever stocks you like) assuming I wanted a return on my investment?
At a more realistic level, would I buy a share in a charging garage or a share in a defense mfg.?
It just looks like a poor investment choice.

 

[pb2000]

In high rise Condos, I expect that a smart electrical panel will be the way to go. Run trunking conduit in the parking structure and as people buy EVs the electrician taps into the closest junction box and pulls in a 15 or 20A circuit. Pop in a smart breaker in the panel and register it as a sub-account on your power bill. Job done. Low rise can just have conduit run out to their parking stall (many cold places already have this in the form of block heater circuits).

 

[Earl]

smart electrical panel will be the way to go.

My experience is that a larger transformer is cheaper, with a lot less maintenance required, than anything 'smart'.

 

[pb2000]

My experience is that a larger transformer is cheaper, with a lot less maintenance required, than anything 'smart'.

Huh? I'm talking about a an electrical panel board (breaker box) stuffed full of these things (or a more application specific version thereof). Obviously a bit of work is required to securely integrate with the utilities (last thing we need is more 'Internet of Sh|t'), but that would be the simplest way forward IMO.

 

[ewoodrick]

Huh? I'm talking about a an electrical panel board (breaker box) stuffed full of these things (or a more application specific version thereof). Obviously a bit of work is required to securely integrate with the utilities (last thing we need is more 'Internet of Sh|t'), but that would be the simplest way forward IMO.

I could probably pay for lifetime charging, for the costs of smart panels, especially commercial ones. They aren't cheap.

$4500 for the panel SPAN® Panel | A smarter electrical panel
And I'm pretty sure that doesn't include the breakers. And generally, panels are cheap when compared to the cost of the all the breakers needed. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being $20,000. And that's just a residential solution.

 

[JetFalcon]

I thought maybe every EV should have an electric scooter inside them so all EV owners can access an EV charger within a 1-2 mile distance. It be really cool if an EV scooter could be integrated to charge inside EVs so they don't have to be taken out.

I did this while visiting a friend's apartment in Glendale AZ. His apartment was near the shopping center by State Farm Arena and there were plenty of free L2 charging. However this one center fences off their property at closing time, but there was a chargepoint that was not fenced off. So I charged my car their overnight every single night and all 3 days not a single EV charged there at night. There were like 4-6 chargepoints at that spot.

Then I rode my electric scooter from the car to apartment and it was so nice to have free charging and be fully topped off every single day. I feel it's a hack all EV owners should know about if they got an EV charger 1-2 miles away from a spot they will be at for more than 6 hours, like a home.

 

[Genie]

If given the choice of having a conveniently close Supercharger or having L1/L2 EVSE where they park at night, if many people would choose the SuC?
Especially if the EVSE was L2, would you prefer the nearby SuC?

 

[pb2000]

I could probably pay for lifetime charging, for the costs of smart panels, especially commercial ones. They aren't cheap.

$4500 for the panel SPAN® Panel | A smarter electrical panel
And I'm pretty sure that doesn't include the breakers. And generally, panels are cheap when compared to the cost of the all the breakers needed. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being $20,000. And that's just a residential solution.

As I said, it would require an application specific version, with metering for the utility and nothing else. With a commercial 3 phase 200A panel (ideally 240V instead of 208V), you could have 30+ parking spots on 15A overnight charging. Nobody fighting over limited shared chargers and nobody b|tching about EV drivers getting a handout, as it's all metered. Maybe angels will fly out of me arse tomorrow to announce cold fusion (and Kate Winslet* asking me on a date), so electricity isn't even worth metering anymore.

*The 1997 version of Kate. Sh|t, Titanic came out a long time ago, am I getting old?

 

[ewoodrick]

I thought maybe every EV should have an electric scooter inside them so all EV owners can access an EV charger within a 1-2 mile distance. It be really cool if an EV scooter could be integrated to charge inside EVs so they don't have to be taken out.

Might work for you, but not on my list. The major advantage of an EV is that I DON'T have to spend any time adding miles to it. I pull in the garage, I take 5 seconds to plug in and that's it. Having to go to a nearby Supercharger and even ride a scooter home just really spoils the experience.

Superchargers are only a necessary evil when on road trips. I'm paying about $0.06 per kWh, a fraction of what a Supercharger costs.

 

[ewoodrick]

As I said, it would require an application specific version, with metering for the utility and nothing else. With a commercial 3 phase 200A panel (ideally 240V instead of 208V), you could have 30+ parking spots on 15A overnight charging. Nobody fighting over limited shared chargers and nobody b|tching about EV drivers getting a handout, as it's all metered. Maybe angels will fly out of me arse tomorrow to announce cold fusion (and Kate Winslet* asking me on a date), so electricity isn't even worth metering anymore.

*The 1997 version of Kate. Sh|t, Titanic came out a long time ago, am I getting old?

We've got an off-airport parking garage where the inside parking has one wall with probably 50 120V 20A plugs along the wall. No extra charge

Remember, that ANY time that you bill for something, it has a significant cost. It can cost more to bill than to charge. It's much cheaper to just add a few dollars to the HOA or rent to cover flat rate charging. Maybe just a special parking sticker is needed.

I believe that California and maybe a few more states have enacted laws to begin the electrification of multiple unit dwellings. Just a number of communities have enacted laws to enable a high current plug in the garage of single unit residences.

It's simply a chicken and egg thing. The best thing is that there are a lot of chickens in the world now. the eggs are starting to appear.