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EV Comparison: Tesla Model 3 Versus Chevy Bolt
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Eh, most of the stuff I've seen Model 3 in for would be written of as "normal, as designed" at a Chevy dealership. Stuff like misaligned panels, paint issues, etc.
roblab
Active Member
I'd be interested to see the stats on this. I've put roughly 160,000 miles on Teslas in the last 6 years and NEVER took them to Service.
But then again, I can install my own windshield wiper blades.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
*Predicted?
Although Bolt is pretty solid as there is relatively few things to go wrong. I once had my HVAC refuse to work on "Auto" for a while, had to use manual settings and even then it did a very poor job of cooling. I ended up having to just shut off the car for a while, and then it worked (the 2nd time I powered it down and left it). Other than that yeah, it's been solid mechanically (the Model 3 has, too, but only 1 month compared to 10).
The asymmetrical front door alignment wasn't noticeable at first but once I saw it I can't unsee it.
But it's not something that matters beyond esthetics AFAIK.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Then I don't understand why people are saying that the Bolt dropped in reliability on the most recent report:
The Only 3 Electric Cars With Strong Reliability Ratings for 2019
ℬête Noire
Active Member
There are a LOT of was to construct these metrics, and these top-line numbers tend to be kind squishy. Usually it's a good idea to run across a number of sources, to get a more consensus feel. Bolt's a quite solid, if basic, car. It had relatively few problems crop up, nothing particularly important outside a <0.01% rate of unexpected end of range due to a battery pack design failure, which has been mitigated by a recall and patch of software (which is really good given it's only in it's 2nd model year ever, entirely new designs tend to be a lot more problematic).Then I don't understand why people are saying that the Bolt dropped in reliability on the most recent report:
The Only 3 Electric Cars With Strong Reliability Ratings for 2019
I think Consumer Reports and it's ilk's value to me isn't so much in their given specific number, but they do tend to do a good job of browbeating manufacturers. Case in point it found a hole in Tesla's braking optimization and spurred them to fix it. Also, my seats are better padded because Tesla was spurred to re-design after it got knocked for the seats in a review.
seattlite2004
Active Member
Expectations are typically directly proportional to purchase price.LOL, I must. Because I've had Ranger Max out for things on my Model 3 that were of the type I just shrugged off on my Bolt as "well that's not quite lined up right, oh well".
Wait a sec. there are all kinds of buyers. The market talks loud and clear... saying there are more buyers for the 3. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t clear and compelling arguments for Bolt for the budget buyer who doesn’t do distance drives often and plans to keep it 5+ years. That’s one heck of a net of incentives price for a 200+ mile EV. If I were on a budget and it were that or no EV, I’d be bolting!
ℬête Noire
Active Member
This was borderline $40,000 car (EDIT: talking not list, of course). Not remotely close to proportionate to what I'd expect of the $45,0000 MR Model 3.
Because it's very obviously a much lesser vehicle than it's price, after accounting for BEV and Rebates it comes in quite fine. That's just how it is.
With the Model 3 I don't need to do the "BEV price adjustment" for expectations.
EDIT: Put another way. The Model 3 just flat out moves and looks good. The computer UX is of the now if not the future. It feels like an expensive vehicle.
The Bolt is fun and funky and I'm accepting of the looks, but it in no way feels like an expensive vehicle. The UX varies from throwback to down-rent.
Point of reference here: In the last 10 years vehicles we've owned are top trim in Acura, Camry, Infiniti G35x). Right before that we also had a Jeep Liberty and a Rendezvous (they were too old to make the move to the US).
I have no regret trading in, and don't miss, the Acura for the Bolt but that is only on the back of the BEV related fun and no-gas-station situation. I don't think of the Bolt as "expensive" in the way I felt the Acura was (and I paid less for the Acura) but the RWD Model 3 feels easily a cut above the Acura. For my car itself it definitely feels above what the G35x was, in my recollection, although it at least the G35x had AWD, which is a lot of what inspired me to get the AWD Model 3, and that's also going back long enough it's really hard to make a proper comparison because of how much car system have modernized and frankly fading memory of it since it's been some years (and was mostly the wife's car).
If I don't feel the car looks that good to start with, why am I going to feel motivated fuss over things? Of course there is some liberation in that indifference, but still it is what it is.
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EV-lutioin
Active Member
Yes, you could have purchased a vastly superior Model 3 for just $8k more! The convenience of the Supercharger network alone is worth that.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
For some people.
For others they'd literally never use, or need, that network.
Again the average american drives a total of 30 miles a day.
Heck, I drive almost 3x that on work days, and I still never need a supercharger in normal use (nor would a bolt)
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
You are abusing the factoid. The average American may well drive 30*365 miles a year but that says nothing about the distribution of daily driving for the median American. Face it, a median American shopping for a car wants it to cover very close to 100% of their vehicle uses. Convenience is a top priority, and heading out to the car rental place more than once in a blue moon is just not on their radar.
In more concrete terms: driving 200 - 300 miles each way occurs multiple times a year for a huge swath of the American public and the Bolt cannot even do that easily throughout the year. And longer trips ? Only by enthusiasts.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
No, I'm not. I'm stating a specific, accurate, fact.
Lemme help you out with more numbers since you seem to imagine they disagree with the one I quoted so far:
Mean distance driven is 29.2 miles in a day.
Median? 10 miles in a day.
The median is lower
The small # of people taking long drives is dragging the mean up a lot- but not doing much to change the median. Exactly because the vast majority of people simply don't drive very far day to day.
Thanks for bringing up mean vs median since it makes my argument significantly stronger
Yup. And 200 miles of range more than does that job
The supercharger network is great for:
1) The small minority of folks driving anywhere near a couple hundred miles a day or more with any frequency
2) Really cheap people who pass one to/from work, can use it free, and care more about saving on their power bill than sitting around a supercharger for a while.
3) As a nice bonus to people who bought a Tesla for other reasons (for example the performance/handling on a Bolt is simply unacceptable to me- even thought it's going to be "fine" for the average american) when they do happen to take their one or two long trips a year. For example I drive a lot more than the average driver per day (mean or median- pretty commonly 75-100 miles a day sometimes more) and yet I'm still only going to need the supercharger network on average maybe 1-2 trips a year? So it'll be nice to have. But if it didn't exist I'd just either take our other ICE vehicle, or rent something (and $8000 in savings would've rented me a LOT of cars if a bolt had otherwise been ok for me).
seattlite2004
Active Member
Not a good value if Elon thinks unlimited supercharging is only worth $5k.
Gotta love the supercharger drama .... This is what happens at superchargers
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Correct, but the longer distance drivers are just about everybody - just not too often.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Almost never. Otherwise the median wouldn't be 3x smaller than the mean.
Essentially most people drive single/double digit miles in a day either always, or all but a very few times a year (big summer vacation, or over Christmas to visit family and such)
The % of folks who drive far enough they genuinely need the supercharger network more than a few times a year is quite low (among the average US driver anyway).
For that small percentage, there's simply 0 substitute for the SC network- it's game changing good.
For the vast majority of Americans though- it's nice to have, but if it didn't exist they'd still be fine, even if it meant using an ICE vehicle for one or two trips in a year.
So as originally pointed out- the bolt (or 2nd gen leaf) is plenty of range for most Americans needs, at significant savings.
Hell it's enough for mine, but I'm willing to pay more for the other benefits, hence the Tesla.
Remember- when Tesla sold lifetime supercharging they only priced it at 2k. Despite what Elon is saying now, even they knew it's not "really" that valuable to most drivers.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
To be fair, this is what happens when you don't have a Supercharger network:
Beverly Hills Bans Public Charging For Plug-In Hybrids
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
They pass policies that dissuade the use of half-measure hybrids in favor of full EVs?
Good.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
For now, sure. What's the next step though? Do they start banning BEVs that can't charge at a specific rate to help ease congestion?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Thing is, again for vast majority of drivers, it's "nice" to top off for free at a public charger, but they don't have much of a "need" to... (1st gen leaf maybe being the exception for a lot more drivers than anything else).
It's a mentality shift folks are going to need to learn.
You don't need to "stop for fuel" every day when out- you do that at home while you sleep.
I think you'll see more destination chargers at hotels, letting folks do exactly that while travelling (and indeed I've seen a lot more of this lately).... but stuff like "I can L2 charge for an hour at the farmers market!" is much more a nice to have than an I'm screwed if there's no open stall kinda thing.
Hybrids are screwed 0% of the time by lack of chargers though so I'm fine by a place too cheap to put more in making them pure EV only....
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