TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

EV fast-charging network to roll-out in Australia after funding boost

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by baillies, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. baillies

    baillies Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Messages:
    289
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    EV fast-charging network to roll-out in Australia after funding boost

    42 sites, each with a minimum of two 350kW fast chargers
    “That all adds up to about $1 million a site,” adds Mills. “So that initial investment (of $7 million), that gets us going.
    Great to see more chargers especially modern high power ones. I hope Tesla releases support for these soon.

    I really don't understand $1million per site though, I can't imagine Tesla is spending this much per supercharger site. I thought they were more like $USD100K for 4-6 chargers.
     
  2. rohan3au

    rohan3au Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    This has got me pretty excited. $1 million seems to be about right when you're talking about dealing with energy distributors to add substations, power poles, lines then dealing with councils or private entities for space, proposals, applications, etc. Then you've got the price of the actual chargers themselves, and I'm sure 350kw chargers aren't exactly cheap.
     
  3. Chuq

    Chuq Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,766
    Location:
    Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
  4. ChrsiH314

    ChrsiH314 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2015
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    350kW is a lot of current. Nothing currently available can charge at that rate, but the way of the future - we hope! I wonder about the technology, a Tesla cable at 135kW max is already 3cm or so thick! And 8 of those stations side by side would be nearly 3MW if all in use at the same time. I would like to see some comment in there about this is all being done with renewables, but maybe that's for the future too.
     
  5. Mark E

    Mark E Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    800
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    I suspect that the 350kW standard will use 800v to keep the current lower. I also suspect that many of these installations will have a battery system as a buffer from the mains, otherwise the grid connection costs would be substantial.
     
    • Informative x 1
  6. Attica04

    Attica04 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Quick question is there somewhere that would sell all the connectors and cables needed for Australia as a kit or bundle?
     
  7. rohan3au

    rohan3au Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    EVnomics will get you going, depending how far you want to go, you could do without a 3-phase adapter unless you're going rural.

    J1772 to Type 2 adapter:
    J1772 to Type 2 Adapter - Rated 32A
    Type 2 to Type 2 cable (you could get away with not owning one of these, I've never needed one):
    Type 2 to Type 2 Lead - rated 32A 3 phase
    3-phase adapter (20A or 32A):
    Tesla UMC Adapter

    The only other one that would be very handy is the CHAdeMO adapter that only Tesla sell, you'd need this for the Qld Electric Highway and the new NRMA fast charger network currently being rolled out.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  8. Jimat

    Jimat Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Burra NSW
    Actually AFAIK the best we can get from a Tesla supercharger at the moment is about 120kw.
    And if there are 8 stalls all occupied the actual power available is a lot less per stall as they are in pairs and I think the available power is only that 120Kw per pair. If that is the case then the total for the 8 stands is more likely about 500kw?
     
  9. Tobz

    Tobz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Canberra
    In Canberra this is a critical one :) we ACTEW have rolled a heap of the type 2 chargers in convenient locations around the city.

    CHADEMO would be my next most frequently used adaptor.

    Need a J1772 for Sydney though.
     
  10. Tobz

    Tobz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Canberra
    I assume you meant keep the resistance lower :)

    They share 145kw which allows 120kw max to one of the chargers. If 2 cars are at the a and b charger they will split the 145kw as needed between the 2 cars. So if you have to share a pair, try and pick a car closer to the end of their charge cycle so you can get as much energy as possible.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  11. alexeiw123

    alexeiw123 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2014
    Messages:
    414
    Location:
    Australia - Mid North Coast NSW
    P = VI
    Higher voltage = lower current for the same power
    P = I²R
    If current is lower, considerably less power dissipated as heat through the same resistance.
     
    • Like x 2
  12. Mark E

    Mark E Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    800
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    That is exactly my point
     
    • Like x 1
  13. Mark E

    Mark E Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    800
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    Nope, higher voltage means less current needed for the same power.

    Also, while you are correct about sharing the load, once both cars are past about 60% - (not sure of the exact curve) , they will both be tapered to 60kW anyway. So it might not make much real difference unless. I was quite surprised to see that the 50kW max on CHAdeMO didn’t make the overall charging that much slower - because of the taper
     
    • Like x 1
  14. Tobz

    Tobz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Canberra
    Yep sorry my mistake! Way to long since I have done high school physics!
     
  15. Candleflame

    Candleflame Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    786
    Location:
    QLD, Australia
    i dont think we need more power at all, we need batteries which tolerate high charging rates throughout without much taper.
    Just linking up the battery cells to run at higher voltage won't solve anything and I don't think we have seen any evidence that high voltage low amperage charging is better for a battery pack. ( if adequate cooling is present during low voltage high amperage charging.)
     
  16. Mark E

    Mark E Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    800
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    Nothing to do with the pack or cooling, other than the charging cable and connector. Higher amperage means thicker cables are required...higher voltage needs better insulation, which is easier
     
  17. Candleflame

    Candleflame Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    786
    Location:
    QLD, Australia
    yes but the cable lenght/thickness currently is just a non issue. 130kw charging speed is MORE than enough for electric cars, the problem is the taper.

    The only time this might be remotely relevant is for the Roadster 2.0 and the semi.
     
  18. Mark E

    Mark E Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    800
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    Agreed. If you have a look at the taper then a supercharger isn’t that much faster than CHAdeMo in real life terms, especially if charging from 60% upwards
     
  19. miimura

    miimura Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    3,077
    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    If you make the battery pack bigger and hide the top end of the capacity, the taper appears to be less and the charging rate when "full" is higher. I can't remember which one, but one of the upcoming German BEV SUVs appears to use this technique.
     
  20. alexeiw123

    alexeiw123 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2014
    Messages:
    414
    Location:
    Australia - Mid North Coast NSW
    Yes I've been saying this is where mainstream EVs will go for quite a while. There's a few reasons, and as I understand it, a lot of brands are already doing this. Couldn't tell you for sure which ones but pretty sure Hyundai and Kia are.

    Consumers don't want to know, nor should they need to know about V, I, P, degradation, Ah, kWh, kW, Wh/km etc. it's all just confusing to a general consumer that wants a car they can drive and enjoy.

    Battery (perceived) degradation has the potential to be damaging to a car brand. If you buy a car that is advertised as a 450 km range, then sell it in 5 years time with 400 km range, the perception is that <brand> of EVs loses range over time, which is obviously negative. If the exact same pack is sold as a 400 km range vehicle and the available energy is software limited, not only is degradation slowed but more importantly the perceived degradation is removed entirely. You buy a 400 km range car and after 5 years you sell a 400 km range car. The brand comes out unblemished and the consumer remains loyal.

    Fast charging is not tapered as much and for as long, as you pointed out.

    Consumer will only need to know, range (km) and charging speed (km/h). Every thing else is for the enthusiasts.

    of course it also opens up the opportunity for car geeks to 'chip' their EVs to unlock this extra range, at the cost of battery life, warranty etc. I would assume.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC