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EV Myths From ‘Our Side’

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EV myths abound. Most of them spread by EV detractors have been covered in these forums in great detail – some, perhaps, in too much detail.

Just for a change of pace, I’d like to open a little discussion on some EV myths that I often hear uttered by EV advocates. I’ll suck some of the fun out of it right off the bat by saying that most of these might not really be best described as “myths.” Perhaps a more accurate description would be “mis-applied principles, technical misunderstandings, unwarranted assumptions and inadvertent exaggerations,” but I think you can see why I didn’t use that in the title.

I care less about what they are called, and more about accuracy – no matter which “side” you are on, and regardless of your intentions. When talking about EVs, I think we all want to make sure that we are clarifying agents. There is already too much mud in the waters.

MYTH: EV owners and supporters are left-wing environmentalists

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This is not often stated outright; but is often a clear implication of another statement. For example, posting an article about possible future leaks from a proposed oil pipeline in an EV forum with a comment like “I know everybody here wants to see this dirty thing stopped.” I see a statement like this several times a week.

Yes, EVs are far better for the environment than gas cars, and this is one of the great social benefits of their general adoption. Many buyers and supporters are environmentalists; in the early days, it is likely that most were.

But it was never all of them; and things have changed. Numbers differ widely in surveys based on wording, but it is pretty clearly not true that most current buyers are primarily purchasing for environmental reasons. Nor is it likely true of others in the space, such as industry, government and NGO employees and volunteers. As we advocates have been saying for a long time, there are many good reasons to support EVs; so it is not helpful to assume that all of us have the same motivations or place the same weight on all of the benefits.

This is a complicated topic so I’ll just barely skim here, but the blanket assumption that EV owners and supporters are all environmentalists is not just incorrect – it is slowing down EV adoption. Some people really don’t like being associated with environmentalists, or in seeing environmentalist causes succeed. Even those that largely root for them don’t generally make their car purchases based on it, as a quick look at the market share of various types of ICE vehicles will tell you. The blanket, unexamined assumption that EVs are “for the environment” is behind a lot of the pushback from both the far right and the far left. And it is likely the main driver behind the following myth.

MYTH: EV detractors are right-wing shills for Big Oil

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This is the most common dismissal I see EV advocates use when somebody mentions a downside to EVs (even when the downside happens to be a real one; though that is not often).

The most annoying part of this is that many conservatives are EV owners and fans – and why not, as there is much to appreciate including performance, convenience, TCO savings, national security implications, savings from air and water mitigation efforts and health effects, and local economic benefits. The idea that only liberals like EVs is absurd (as noted with the previous myth).

But it is also plain incorrect to state that most detractors are big oil fans, paid or not. Yes, oil companies have been caught paying think tanks for friendly white-papers and op-ed placements, and some oil executives have made statements about EVs that display a startling lack of understanding (or a disappointing disingenuousness). But the quantity of this pales in comparison to the efforts of some of the other detractors: TSLA shorts, executives of alternative companies (power-dense batteries, H2, CNG, etc), liberals afraid that EVs might slow progress towards bicycles and buses, gearheads that are unaware of electric performance implications, free-market purists or economic justice advocates that are unaware that petroleum has huge subsidies, auto dealers trying to avoid a tectonic shift that may not include them, auto manufacturers trying to slow down a risky transition, etc. Or, regular consumers that have seen some of these arguments but have not examined them in detail.

Incorrectly assuming the motivations of detractors derails the conversation, and muddles the opportunity for education about EV benefits. I find it more effective to focus on the message than on possible motivations of the messenger.

MYTH: Most trips are under 40 miles, so there is no reason for anybody to not buy an EV now

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Yes, it is true that most trips are under 40 miles. And in fact, UCS and CR did a study that determined that 42% of car buyers could buy a short-range battery electric vehicle and not change ANY of their driving habits or require public charging – there are that many people in the new car market that have electricity where they park, and NEVER carry more or go farther than a LEAF is capable of. It is definitely true that more of the existing plug-in electric vehicles could be sold.

That said, there is still a majority of new car buyers (plus all the people that typically don’t buy new cars) that are not well-served by the current offerings. Some people really need a pickup truck, or a minivan, or something with a lot of clearance. Most can’t afford Tesla’s current offerings but may still need six seats or AWD. There are plenty of good reasons to not buy one of the existing EVs.

Just as important, people don’t buy cars based on statistical averages, especially averages that are not their own. Many people DO regularly take trips well over 40 miles (I take a 100-mile trip almost every week; a LEAF won’t work for me). Or even if it’s not regular – say they only take it once every three months – that is still four times per year. If a car sharing service parks vehicles on your block, no problem – but such services only cover small parts of the country. Renting a car four times a year is a considerable burden for many buyers.

The biggest issue I have with this, really, is that I have never seen it be effective as an argument. So why use it? I think a far more useful argument is that any ICE driver can switch to a PHEV with no change in driving habits. That can be good enough to switch most of their driving to electricity so the discussion could end there. But note that once a PHEV is accepted, it is usually easier to argue for the merits of BEVs, or explain how a two-car household with a BEV and an ICE can be similar to a PHEV.

MYTH: It takes 6kWh of electricity to refine a gallon of gas

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It does take an enormous amount of energy to refine petroleum, and 6kWh seems to be a reasonable guess. That is not even counting energy used to locate, extract, transport (at least twice), and pump it. Refineries are the second-largest electricity consumers in California. Petroleum is FAR less efficient than electricity for transportation.

But “6kWh of electricity” is simply not correct – the energy is indeed needed, but much of it (exact amounts are elusive) is not grid electricity, but rather a byproduct of the refining process. Also, petroleum refining typically produces multiple products (i.e. diesel and gasoline) that muddles the amount of energy per gallon.

I understand the desire to use this number – it sounds like you can take the petroleum middleman out of the equation and just power the car directly on that electricity, which would render all further arguments about cost and emissions moot. But while electricity is far superior to petroleum on both counts, I am afraid that this shortcut to explain the difference doesn’t really work.

MYTH: An EV is cleaner than any gas car even when the electricity is generated from 100% coal

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This is kind of close. EVs are way cleaner than gas cars on the current U.S. grid. The grid is getting cleaner, enabling EV owners to choose cleaner sources of electricity.

It is true to say that the average EV is better than the average ICE even with 100% coal, or that an EV is better than a comparable ICE with 100% coal. But the average EV is not as good as the best hybrid with 100% coal.

According to UCS, the US-sales weighted-average EV consumption can be as low as 35mpg (based on 2012 data; it is probably better now, but still likely less than a Prius).

MYTH: The $7,500 federal tax credit is to make EVs more affordable

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Many people seem to think that the $7,500 federal tax credit is in place to help poor people afford an electric car. Or at least to get middle-class people that might be stretching to be able to finally make it.

The government has no particular interest in selling EVs to people with little money; and the poor don’t buy new cars. New cars – especially expensive cars with new technology – are almost always purchased by people with lots of money, and the government is fine with leveraging their dollars. The tax credit is a buying incentive, designed to help shift the balance so that somebody thinking about buying an ICE might decide on an EV instead.

The public benefits of EVs – better national security, lower trade deficit, a cash injection to the economy, less fouling of air and water, fewer carbon emissions – don’t depend on who buys the cars. In any event, poor people are rarely able to take advantage of a large tax credit, or float the cash until tax refund time even if they could. Sure, there are some buyers on the edge that are enabled by the tax credit, but the objective is to alter buying behavior, not subsidize the poor. That is why it is a tax credit, and not subject to income or vehicle price limitations. Having rich people buy new technology is the best way to increase volumes, reduce prices, and create a used market – those are how the poor will eventually afford EVs.

Electric vehicles are new technology that was starting off in small quantities, and in the auto market that means higher prices. In 2008 the Bush administration asked the DOE how much to subsidize EVs to help drive buying decisions. The US Government Accountability Office estimated that petroleum subsidies (payments and tax credits to petroleum companies only; this did not include pollution mitigation, health effects, patrolling Hormuz, etc) benefited the average gas car by about $12,000 over its lifetime. The $7,500 was calculated to be the net present value of that amount, and that’s how EVs got their tax credit.

MYTH: Other automakers can’t build a competitive car because they can’t duplicate Tesla’s technology

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I am confident that engineers at any major automaker could make a great competitor to the Model S and X. Tesla has great engineers, and they do have some technical advantages that other automakers are not yet using, but engineering skill and technology are not why the Model S and X are in a class by themselves. Especially not since Tesla has said other automakers will not be sued for copying their technology.

Until Model 3 demand was demonstrated, many automakers didn’t really think there was demand for EVs. Perhaps they had convinced themselves of this, since they kept arguing so to keep governments from forcing them to make EVs. Even if they thought consumers wanted them, they are legally required to sell through dealers, and dealers have generally been happier selling gas cars (although this is changing). Plus, EVs have that refueling problem that all of their current cars don’t have – who wants to think through all that when they already have a solution? And once you have a solution, there’s the whole marketing problem about how to sell your new product as superior when you are still mostly moving the old product.

It might be short-sighted thinking. It might be waiting until the technology is ready. It might be misunderstanding how to apply the technology to best attract consumers. It might be waiting until somebody else proves the market and then following quickly to reduce the risk. But it’s not that they aren’t capable of building the cars.

TMC Member Chad Schwitters is a retired mobile software executive. He has been an EV driver since 2008 and a Tesla driver since 2009. Additionally, he served as Event Coordinator for the Seattle Electric Vehicle Association and as a board member for Plug In America.

Photo: Flickr
 
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Here are some myth's from "our side" that I've heard too many times:
1. Electric cars only have one moving part.
2. An EV will run forever, just replace the battery every 500,000 miles (we keep forgetting that unibody, interior, suspension and so on wears out before)
3. Tesla is made of aluminum so it will last forever (Ok, it will last much longer than steel cars but look at old Land Rover or Audi A8 and find out aluminum doesn't last forever...)
 
I think we may have diverged into different topics. You had said it takes 4 watts of power to make 1 watt of a solar panel. but that 1 watt solar panel would make 10,000 watts over it's 30 year life. The power used to make a gallon of gasoline is used up when you burn that gallon.
Ahh ...

I was pointing out that we "waste" 4 kWh of sunlight out of every 5.
I'm not really being serious, except to say that including internal energy inputs does not make sense to me.
 
Ahh ...

I was pointing out that we "waste" 4 kWh of sunlight out of every 5.
I'm not really being serious, except to say that including internal energy inputs does not make sense to me.
It makes sense when we can use the energy inputs for something else, like natural gas (and a little electricity). If it's something like petroleum coke or sunlight that's not going to be used elsewhere, sure.
 
It makes sense when we can use the energy inputs for something else, like natural gas (and a little electricity). If it's something like petroleum coke or sunlight that's not going to be used elsewhere, sure.
That is my point. Focus on external inputs. The fact that part of the extraction is wasted is besides the point, at least where it concerns the alternative source powering of EVs.
 
That is my point. Focus on external inputs. The fact that part of the extraction is wasted is besides the point, at least where it concerns the alternative source powering of EVs.
Can you elaborate on that?

Edit - I agree insofar as we're looking at the same part of a process. If we're comparing different parts of a process, eg the energy inputs for petroleum versus those same inputs for gasoline, then I disagree because the internal energy loss reduces the amount of end product, which changes the amount of energy spent to get that end product.
 
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[...]

Anyhow, long story short, while I appreciate attempts to correct EV myths, we shouldn't replace an existing EV myth with another EV myth. In my opinion...
  • We should reference specific government figures (CA in this case) on E&R and establish a lower bound for energy with those figures in that region.
  • We should acknowledge that the E&R figures may be lower in other states, but also point out that the overall the total energy figures are certainly higher because we're just looking at E&R.
  • Last but not least, we should note that as we exhaust more light sweet crude reserves and use more heavy sour crude/tar sand reserves, the energy used to make gasoline/diesel/etc will increase proportionally.
When all is said and done, making gas/diesel/etc requires far more energy than the petroleum industry acknowledges, and that energy use is only going to increase as we use more heavy sour crude and tar sands.

Hi OMG. Thanks for your contributions here. I appreciate the numbers and analysis and mostly agree with the main points you are trying to get across (I have not gone in detail over all the little claims and references).

I agree that I should not have said that all of the non-electricity inputs are by-products; it is clearly more complicated than that. However, aside from that modification, I believe I correctly described the simple point I intended, which was that "it takes 6kWh of electricity to refine a gallon of gas" is incorrect. I was not trying to calculate exactly how much energy of each type is actually used, and I think the back-in-forth in this thread shows why that is a difficult task. For my purposes, the fact that electricity is far more efficient than petroleum is good enough, and that is well-established. But there are other purposes for which the numbers are important, and even though I will not be involved I appreciate you, JeffN, Sagebrush, mspohr and others working out details here.

Here are some myth's from "our side" that I've heard too many times:
1. Electric cars only have one moving part.
2. An EV will run forever, just replace the battery every 500,000 miles (we keep forgetting that unibody, interior, suspension and so on wears out before)
3. Tesla is made of aluminum so it will last forever (Ok, it will last much longer than steel cars but look at old Land Rover or Audi A8 and find out aluminum doesn't last forever...)

All with an important kernel of truth...but indeed, they all clearly take things too far so they all qualify as myths. Thanks!


A couple of days ago I was scanning new threads in these forums and ran across another myth that annoyed me that I wanted to bring up in this thread...but now it has completely escaped my mind. Oh well, there is no shortage! I still manage to be more annoyed by the even-more-numerous anti-EV myths...
 
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I remember the myth I recently ran across now:

MYTH: Automakers other than Tesla only make ugly compliance cars so nobody will buy them

There is some truth here; but also some misunderstanding of the auto market. Some automakers have made pure compliance cars (the Honda Fit EV and Toyota RAV4-EV are good examples). And it is also true that some PEVs were intentionally made less attractive (BMW i3, Nissan LEAF) to nudge existing brand customers that don’t demand a PEV to another car with better margins. And yes, it is even true that no legacy automaker is yet following a volume PEV strategy.

But the first thing to note is that a pure compliance car would be a straight conversion (the whole idea of a compliance play is to reduce cost) so a pure compliance car is no uglier than gas cars already being sold. Uglified cars (I prefer to call them non-cannibalizing; this also can include attractive cars that have lowered utility or some other such feature) only make sense when they are conquest cars that are meant to attract new customers, and handicapped slightly to keep existing customers buying higher-margin options. So compliance cars and "ugly" cars are separate categories.

More to the point, automakers have built PEVs that are neither ugly nor pure compliance. Consider halo cars like the BMW i8 and Cadillac ELR, which are beautiful (though still meant to sell in small numbers). Even a compliance car has to sell in certain numbers, and conquest cars generally sell in even higher numbers – and in either case, the automakers want happy customers (and the vast majority of them are). Also note that while a non-cannibalizing conquest car may not sell at volume levels, the good news is that dealers just getting started with PEVs prefer them. Automakers have to sell through dealers, but dealers are understandably reluctant to put out any new effort to just cannibalize existing customers – they are, however, happy to put out effort to sell to NEW customers. Non-cannibalizing conquest cars are a reasonable way for automakers to help get dealers to be willing to put forth the effort to sell PEVs.

All of this will change with time. Volume PEVs will be designed, marketed and sold just like ICE cars. Tesla is making that time arrive sooner than it would have otherwise.
 
Thank goodness I only almost perpetrated a myth. :)

I didn't mean quite what you fear. I am familiar with US energy issues including where we (I am US-based and worked at a non-profit for EVs in the US, so I am often US-centric, sorry) buy oil. However, I agree that there are indeed people that aren't. In fact, I used to hear this myth (that the US buys its oil from the Middle East) frequently, but that was long ago...it is awfully rare these days. Still, it could well qualify as a myth that some EV advocates perpetuate.

US Oil Imports by Country of Origin.

U.S. Total Crude Oil and Products Imports

In April 2017, the US imported 243,922,000 barrels of Crude Oil. 61,347,000 of those barrels came from the Persian Gulf.
 
Nicely done, Chad! I've heard all of these myths, or faulty generalizations at one point or another and trying to debunk them whenever possible.

One thing you touched on and didn't go into depth is the "why" of it being important to not perpetuate these myths. And that several reasons.

First, it hurts the credibility of all EV advocates as some of these are easily debunked, and makes it look like this is a political debate of opinion, rather than facts and science vs lies and fallacies (mostly coming from the other side - see recent Fueling U.S. Forward campaign as a prime example). If we lose our credibility as advocates, the mostly low information public will not have any more trust for the truth we present than the lies that EV foes are.

Secondly, as I think you touched on, it puts EVs and their supporters in a small box, and fosters an us vs them paradigm. When in reality, the umbrella of people who might be interested in a PEV for their own personal reason is quite large. I rattle of a list of at list a half dozen such reasons, before even getting to one that has anything to do with environmentalism. We need to cast a wider net, and several of these myths inhibit that.

Finally, related to the myths about trying to convince the EV curious that (B)EVs already have enough range for everyone and/or are affordable to everyone, or that Tesla is the only real EV worth considering - and a recent post by Chelsea Sexton: Purism may seem like the strongest advocacy, but it often ends up tasting more like vinegar than honey when pushed on the masses is such a way as these myths present. We should be focusing on what the consumer wants, be willing to bend on the purism to meet their needs with the best*P*EV for them, and even willing to say when an PEV maybe just isn't right for someone...yet. ;) This kind of very honest dialog is what makes a true EV champion advocate, IMO.
 
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Unfortunately the GAO's report to the DOE doesn't appear to have ever been published online. At least I can't find it.

I first heard about it at a talk by Jim Billmaier about the topics in his book. This was probably back around 2010. The book mentions it, but only briefly; there was a little more in the talk, and there was some email discussion about it in 2011 or 2012. Plug In America's former policy director was involved (the DOE asked him for advice); this was before I was at Plug In America, but he filled in the details on a call around 2013, and his details matched Billmaier's.

The DOE initially suggested $2,500; I think that was the amount of the last HEV subsidy. Plug In America briefly tried suggesting that petroleum subsidies to be removed instead, but of course that wasn't happening. So then Plug In America suggested starting at $2,500, but going up to the petroleum subsidy amount for larger batteries. So the DOE asked the GAO to calculate how much the lifetime petroleum subsidy was, then took the NPV of that value, and came up with $7,500 as the top value.

Too bad you don't have more information on that GAO report. It could be a fairly powerful argument but there is nothing to reference to back it up.
 
MYTH: BEVs should have priority over PHEVs at L2 charging stations

In some places poorly-sited charging stations sit unused. In other places, there are not nearly enough chargers to keep up with demand.

Some suggest that we should help solve this shortage by saying that BEVs have priority over PHEVs. They usually elaborate either by saying that a PHEV can make it home without a charge while a BEV can’t; or that a BEV “deserves” the charge more because it pollutes less.

It is of course generally true that a PHEV could make it home without a charge (assuming they have enough gas, or money to buy more). But the entire point of buying a PHEV instead of an ICE is to use the electric part; and there are plenty of associated social benefits that accrue to all of us – but only when they use electricity! And as they have less range, it is more important for PHEVs to charge in public. Not to mention that many L2 charging stations (PHEVs don’t use DC) are paid for by site hosts to attract customers, and they don't care whether the customer drives BEV or PHEV. Besides, unless a BEV and PHEV happen to arrive at the same time (in which case I agree that it would be nice of the PHEV to yield if the BEV driver needs the charge!), the only way this works is if PHEVs never use empty charging stations…and that would be a waste of both the PHEV and the EVSE.

It is also true that a BEV, by itself, will almost always pollute less than a PHEV, which will sometimes run its engine (they might be pretty much even in a high coal area). But most short-range BEVs that stop at public L2 stations are owned by people with another car. And it’s usually a gas car, because the BEV won’t get them everywhere they need to go. The average Volt drives more electric miles – not total miles, but ELECTRIC miles – than the average LEAF. De-prioritizing a car that is doing more to displace petroleum with electricity is backwards. Until we get a LOT more charging infrastructure, PHEVs will be a required part of the transition.

Either way, keeping PHEVs from charging stations seems like a poor solution to an infrastructure shortage, especially since doing so still won’t guarantee that any BEV that needs a charge will find the charger functional, accessible and unused. There's really no good way to get the word out or enforce anything other than first come, first served anyway. The only real solution is to build more infrastructure. I know that can take a while and it can be tough in the interim, but more chargers is definitely going to be a good thing in the long run.
 
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@Jeff N
Good find -- thanks.
That does look like a clear mistake, although I have read in the past that refineries run some of the crude through a for electricity to use internally. It may be that was the case once upon a time, and nowadays they make electricity from NG.
Oil companies are not big consumers of energy in the form of electricity.
I come from an oil company background and can say that less than 10% of fuels consumed is used for electrical generation, and that only for powering pumps and other machinery, as well as for lighting. Most of the rest is used to directly heat feedstocks for fractional distillation and for thermal and the catalytic cracking plants that break down large, heavy molecules into lighter fractions useable in motor fuels and chemical feed stocks. About 20% is used to make steam as a reactant or for indirect heating for the very heavy fractions like tar and asphalt.
 
Nice! Do you have a link for the info supporting the 7,500 and 12,000 figures?

Actually I think that one should go into the 'Myth' bucket as well.

I believe the two numbers come from this CBO study:
Effects of Federal Tax Credits for the Purchase of Electric Vehicles

Do the Federal Tax Credits Make Electric Vehicles Cost-Competitive?
At current vehicle and energy prices, the lifetime costs to consumers of an electric vehicle are generally higher than those of a conventional vehicle or traditional hybrid vehicle of similar size and performance, even with the tax credits, which can be as much as $7,500 per vehicle. That conclusion takes into account both the higher purchase price of an electric vehicle and the lower fuel costs over the vehicle’s life. For example, an average plug-in hybrid vehicle with a battery capacity of 16 kilowatt-hours would be eligible for the maximum tax credit. However, that vehicle would require a tax credit of more than $12,000 to have roughly the same lifetime costs as a comparable conventional or traditional hybrid vehicle.

That doesn't mean Gasoline vehicles are subsided by $12000. It says Electric Vehicles need to be subsidized by $12000 to have the same cost as a gas vehicle. (Back in 2012 - obviously it's no longer the case).