EV parking priority
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Apparently Saturn funded these. Pretty low tech but Tesla should include and send one of these to everyone with a car.
[URL="http://www.evchargernews.com/chargingprotocol.htm"]Protocol[/URL]
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doug
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That's interesting. Should pure EV's get priority in charging spots over PHEVs, (REEVs, EREV, whatever)?
TEG
Teslafanatic
- Aug 20, 2006
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I can tell you from experience that such notes can cause issues.
I once put such a note on an ICE car parked in a Costco EV reserved charge spot. I then parked in non reserved space next to it and was able to just reach the cable to charge. When I returned from shopping, the tire department manager confronted me and presented the note and asked if it was mine. I said, yeah, that is an EV reserved spot so I left the note... He said that the spots are usually empty and the tire department had given that customer permission to use the spot since there were no other free spaces at the time. That customer got mad at them for getting permission and then getting a reprimand note after using it.
Just because the spots say EV reserved doesn't mean that everyone feels EV owners are entitled to exclusive use of them. Places like Costco feel like they are doing a favor to EV customers, but they may decide on their own to give out the spaces to someone else. Who owns the space? Who has the right to park there? In effect the signs are really advisory. I don't think there is a law being broken when an ICE is parked there. If the true owner of the space feels that you are policing their property they may not take too kindly and decide not to maintain the hassle of the space. In a way these old EV spaces have turned into a way to give an "excuse" to reserve some spaces for preferred customers or always hold a couple of emergency spots in reserve.
I noticed some spots at Stanford have signs saying they are reserved for EVs only and another sign saying available for ZipCar rental returns too.
I don't use those notes anymore - you can end up pissing off the wrong people.
I once put such a note on an ICE car parked in a Costco EV reserved charge spot. I then parked in non reserved space next to it and was able to just reach the cable to charge. When I returned from shopping, the tire department manager confronted me and presented the note and asked if it was mine. I said, yeah, that is an EV reserved spot so I left the note... He said that the spots are usually empty and the tire department had given that customer permission to use the spot since there were no other free spaces at the time. That customer got mad at them for getting permission and then getting a reprimand note after using it.
Just because the spots say EV reserved doesn't mean that everyone feels EV owners are entitled to exclusive use of them. Places like Costco feel like they are doing a favor to EV customers, but they may decide on their own to give out the spaces to someone else. Who owns the space? Who has the right to park there? In effect the signs are really advisory. I don't think there is a law being broken when an ICE is parked there. If the true owner of the space feels that you are policing their property they may not take too kindly and decide not to maintain the hassle of the space. In a way these old EV spaces have turned into a way to give an "excuse" to reserve some spaces for preferred customers or always hold a couple of emergency spots in reserve.
I noticed some spots at Stanford have signs saying they are reserved for EVs only and another sign saying available for ZipCar rental returns too.
I don't use those notes anymore - you can end up pissing off the wrong people.
TEG
Teslafanatic
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By the way, the note VFX links talks of fines and such for breaking EV parking "laws", but I don't think such laws (if they are even still on the books right now) are in force in a private parking lot like at Fry's, Costco, and other "big box" shopping plazas.
Perhaps the notes make more sense on spots in city owned places, but then you might get confronted by a confused meter maid asking why you are trying to do their job for them.
Perhaps the notes make more sense on spots in city owned places, but then you might get confronted by a confused meter maid asking why you are trying to do their job for them.
Some spots have been marked Hybrid cars only. Does that mean a Pure EV cannot park there?
There has been a backlash against malls installing pregnant parking spaces.
It's sex discrimination.
There are laws on the books that combine them with Handicapped spaces but since they are legislated (but are they voted on by citizens?) they are presumably "more legal" but a judge could throw those laws out in a second.
There has been a backlash against malls installing pregnant parking spaces.
It's sex discrimination.
There are laws on the books that combine them with Handicapped spaces but since they are legislated (but are they voted on by citizens?) they are presumably "more legal" but a judge could throw those laws out in a second.
TEG
Teslafanatic
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That has come up too. Someone (EVnut?) has replaced many of the signs with newer ones that specifically say that hybrids are excluded. I think some hybrid owners had started to figure that they could get away with using the spots because they have an electric motor in their vehicle. So what happens when a Karma or Volt uses the spot? It should probably say something like "plug in vehicle capable of charging here" sort of thing. I mean is it OK for a Tesla to block an Avcon spot that I could otherwise use? Once one of the public spots I planned to use was blocked by GEM NEV that couldn't even use the Avcon charger.
doug
Administrator / Head Moderator
Ok, how about we not go off the rails...
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Part of what I was getting at is that (assuming they have compatible connectors) should pure EVs have some priority since the PHEVs have the option of getting home on gas? (vfx's note mentions the EV driver being stranded.)
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TEG
Teslafanatic
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I don't think the preferred (reserved) parking pecking order is obvious or something we can agree on easily. This is one of those situations where focus groups, and committee decisions should probably sort it out.
The situation of reserved spots in private lots (sometimes with joke signs) versus reserved spots in public places can confused people. I guess the whole handicapped parking situation is probably the best place to start / study.
Perhaps (like with handicapped spots) people should have special placards or license plates to be entitled to park in the reserved spots so that it doesn't end up being subject to interpretation and dispute?
Perhaps the CA signs could be based on HOV stickers? Only cars with white HOV stickers can park here?
I still think it makes sense to say that you can only park there if you are able to use the charge plug there. The example of the GEM NEV taking an Avcon spot that I was hoping to use...
The situation of reserved spots in private lots (sometimes with joke signs) versus reserved spots in public places can confused people. I guess the whole handicapped parking situation is probably the best place to start / study.
Perhaps (like with handicapped spots) people should have special placards or license plates to be entitled to park in the reserved spots so that it doesn't end up being subject to interpretation and dispute?
Perhaps the CA signs could be based on HOV stickers? Only cars with white HOV stickers can park here?
I still think it makes sense to say that you can only park there if you are able to use the charge plug there. The example of the GEM NEV taking an Avcon spot that I was hoping to use...
SByer
'08 #383
I think that this will be an issue quite quickly, though I'd settle for just getting the damn ICE junkers out of there ;-). With 5 EV parking spots at work, and 3 EVs (a NEV, another Ranger EV, and me), and me only being able to use 4 of the spots (cord length), things like this will become an issue fast. And to be honest, I think the Ranger EV should have priority over me, since I'm much more likely to be able to make it home on the previous day's charge.
But I really don't want to see some #$&^&$^% Volt or Fisker in an EV parking spot. If it's half-assed, it doesn't belong there.
But I really don't want to see some #$&^&$^% Volt or Fisker in an EV parking spot. If it's half-assed, it doesn't belong there.
This issue is definitely going to come to a head. I've already had to deal with it too often even with the few cars we have running around today. For a short while we had an "EV dealership" here in town, and they mostly sold Xebras and Zenns. All of our public charging spots have 220V chargers that Rangers and Rav4's and S10's can use... but suddenly we had more little 120V cars rolling around blocking these chargers - the signs do say "EV parking only." So while the intent was to have these as "charge stations" they became EV parking spots. And that meant that full-feature EVs that were counting on these could become stranded.
Simple solution: Throw all gas cars away. Make all new electric cars that all charge the same way. Make all parking spots charging spots. Simple. See?
Definitely not funded by GM. The EAA paid for those out of member funds and many of us still use them today
Interesting. I have my own version of this note that I use regularly when a charger is ICEd. I've never had a problem. In fact each time after I place it on a car, my next move is to find security or parking enforcement and let them know that I'm being blocked. Most places realize that spending $20-40k for a charging station that can't be used is money poorly spent.
I wonder if that same logic can get us out of a ticket for parking in a handicap spot since the signs are just suggestions?? It is a poor precedent to set that parking signage is not enforced... though we see it all the time.
It all depends on the situation. Private lots (that you're speaking of here) are different than public lots. The owner of the private lot gets to determine enforcement. If a public lot is signed correctly, then the vehicle code certainly makes it illegal to park a non-EV in an EV spot.
A problem that we're dealing with right now. In San Francisco as well.
I just had some added to our public spots here in town. Just to make it VERY clear that today's hybrids are not electric cars. What'll screw it all up is when we have plug-in hybrids, of course. Then what? This is gonna get ugly.
Yeah, this is exactly what is happening here. An EV charger being blocked by an EV that cannot use it. So it was suggested that the car has to actually be charging to be parked there. But what happens if somebody comes along and unplugs me? I get a ticket?
Simple solution: Throw all gas cars away. Make all new electric cars that all charge the same way. Make all parking spots charging spots. Simple. See?
You caught me. I was looking for but did not find the version that had the spinning arrow on a dial at the bottom, sort of a "Back in X minutes" type card. I do remember that one saying printing was funded by Saturn.
Let me add to the consternation. When the J connector becomes standard, all plug in cars will be justified to use a spot, even if the sign says, "Only Charging Electric Vehicles May Park Here"
Tdave
Member
I've wondered this as well. Even if I could use the charger, do I have to be plugged in to park there? What if I don't need a charge? What if I'm only using it as privileged parking? Is that ethical? Is that legal? Two different questions.
Is the ethical question different if there's only one spot (and I take it), or if there are 5 free spots (and I take one of them)?
What if I plug in even though I don't need the charge? Then no one but me knows I'm being unethical. For example, I imagine soon there will be some prime EV parking spots in downtown DC. It will be convenient for me to use those. But a 50 mile round trip to DC means I don't actually *need* to charge when I'm there.
doug
Administrator / Head Moderator
Tdave
Member
The blinking/colored light in the charge door? Aren't those all disabled when the car is locked?
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