EV parking priority

[Lloyd]

But what is wrong with free parking as a perk for buying an EV? The usual situation should be that there are enough chargers (and spots) for both PHEVS and pure EVs. I think we shouldn't design around the assumption that there aren't enough chargers, and make life difficult for everyone. Still, we can think about what we do in case there aren't.

It is wrong because it assumes that others are subsidizing you. Econ 101: No Free Lunch! Someone has to pay if somethhing is free.

I don't think that the charger installations will advance as quickly as the production of the vehicles they are intended to serve. I may be proven wrong, but as the people parking for "free" occupy a space for someone needing a charge, sentiments for a 'free for all' may change!

 

[Ardie]

This kind of parking space favoritism is hopefully a short-lived idea.
Its one thing to encourage the use of electric vehicles, but one must be careful not to punish non-electric vehicle owners. Sorry, but it just sounds like they are giving away free gasol.., er, electricity - to those that can afford to already pay more to buy that pricey electric car.

It would be far more palatable if those oh-so special parking spaces were subsidized by local merchants who want the business of those forward-thinking (and probably affluent) EV owners.

So how would you keep out those undesireables? I don't have the final answer, but my first thought is to NOT make those parking spots the primo ones up front; they would be in the boonies, or on the roof. Nobody else would want to park there anyway, except for the EV'ers out to get some free electricity.

-- Ardie

 

[Lloyd]

Well put Ardie! I was not thinking of the sentiments of the gas drivers, as I will likely drive both. Not puting charging directly in front of the store, next to the handicapped spaces would go a long way to make all this more palatable for all.

Will the next move for the handicapped spaces be a requriement for them to have charging ability? Can't have charging in the boonies if it leaves out those that are handicapped! It is hard to be fair to all......

 

[Norbert]

It is wrong because it assumes that others are subsidizing you. Econ 101: No Free Lunch! Someone has to pay if somethhing is free.

But that is more a political question, of whether, in general, you are in favor of incentives for EVs, or not. Given the high external costs of oil consumption, I believe the government will actually save a lot of money by accelerating EV market growth. And free parking (in addition to reserved parking) seems a very cost-effective incentive, psychologically.

Of course this would be only until the market is established, not forever, and more optional, in any case.

I don't think that the charger installations will advance as quickly as the production of the vehicles they are intended to serve. I may be proven wrong, but as the people parking for "free" occupy a space for someone needing a charge, sentiments for a 'free for all' may change!

Not if there are enough spots for all plugin cars. And in places which are known to have fewer chargers than demand, one could have free spots without chargers.

However, I don't see why public charger installations should not advance as quickly, even though they currently seem to have some catch-up to do. Perhaps it will turn out that way, but that would be unfortunate and a loss to everyone, and cost us a lot of money as EVs seem to be the most cost-effective transportation except for the battery cost, which we hope to reduce exactly by establishing a larger market.

 

[Lloyd]

However, I don't see why public charger installations should not advance as quickly, even though they currently seem to have some catch-up to do. Perhaps it will turn out that way, but that would be unfortunate and a loss to everyone, and cost us a lot of money as EVs seem to be the most cost-effective transportation except for the battery cost, which we hope to reduce exactly by establishing a larger market.

I believe we will laugh one day at the FEW charging locations we currently have at key charging locations such as midway betweek San Francisco and Los Angeles, mid desert to Las Vegas, etc. In order to accomodate the increased flow of vehicles, fast charging locations in Baker, Mojave, Harris Ranch, San Luis Obispo area, will need EV parking structures not individual spots in order to handle the demand of the traffic needing a charge, and this is just my backyard!

 

[Norbert]

Well put Ardie! I was not thinking of the sentiments of the gas drivers, as I will likely drive both. Not puting charging directly in front of the store, next to the handicapped spaces would go a long way to make all this more palatable for all.

Will the next move for the handicapped spaces be a requriement for them to have charging ability? Can't have charging in the boonies if it leaves out those that are handicapped! It is hard to be fair to all......

Who would have a problem with chargers for handicapped spaces?

Otherwise, yes, maybe we should wait a few years before conquering those highly desired spots, that uphill battle.

 

[Norbert]

I believe we will laugh one day at the FEW charging locations we currently have at key charging locations such as midway betweek San Francisco and Los Angeles, mid desert to Las Vegas, etc. In order to accomodate the increased flow of vehicles, fast charging locations in Baker, Mojave, Harris Ranch, San Luis Obispo area, will need EV parking structures not individual spots in order to handle the demand of the traffic needing a charge, and this is just my backyard!

And the next generation will say: "Why didn't you just install more chargers in the first place?"

 

[Lloyd]

Who would have a problem with chargers for handicapped spaces?

Otherwise, yes, maybe we should wait a few years before conquering those highly desired spots, that uphill battle.

Those small businesses that own those handicapped spaces, and are required to provide charging that they can't afford to provide might have a problem!

 

[Lloyd]

And the next generation will say: "Why didn't you just install more chargers in the first place?"

Who is you?

 

[Norbert]

Those small businesses that own those handicapped spaces, and are required to provide charging that they can't afford to provide might have a problem!

So they will never get charging?

Who is you?

This generation.

 

[smoothoperator]

The bigger problem from all of this is what are we going to do once the Prius plug in hybrids (and similar) hit the market....Toyota will probably sell a bunch of them and they will start to monopolize charging stations for hours, to top up their 8 mile ev range. Furthermore I am pretty sure they will start to park in EV only parking spots. This is the golden age for EV's (nearing the end) in a few more months it will become tougher to charge and get "EV"parking.

 

[bonnie]

The bigger problem from all of this is what are we going to do once the Prius plug in hybrids (and similar) hit the market....Toyota will probably sell a bunch of them and they will start to monopolize charging stations for hours, to top up their 8 mile ev range. Furthermore I am pretty sure they will start to park in EV only parking spots. This is the golden age for EV's (nearing the end) in a few more months it will become tougher to charge and get "EV"parking.

My assumption is that while we will be inconvenienced at times, this will be the start of having more than one charging station in a location, until the need and availability balance out. I've had to wait for a charge when another EV is charging. Growing pains. And baby steps.

(And I also believe that many people driving EV-ERs will go electric on their next car. They'll try harder and harder to avoid buying gas & will eventually realize that they rarely need it, even with a short range.)

 

[smoothoperator]

My assumption is that while we will be inconvenienced at times, this will be the start of having more than one charging station in a location, until the need and availability balance out. I've had to wait for a charge when another EV is charging. Growing pains. And baby steps.

(And I also believe that many people driving EV-ERs will go electric on their next car. They'll try harder and harder to avoid buying gas & will eventually realize that they rarely need it, even with a short range.)

I am sure that once public charging becomes popular that it will no longer be free. In 5 years or so we will be on this board reminiscing about the good ole days...Not to sound selfish but I kinda like charging without waiting (most of the time) and getting preferred parking etc. I do not have much faith in public entities being able to ramp up the infrastructure to support the massive amount of plug in hybrids that are about to be sold in the near future. I am preparing for utter chaos and probably only being able to charge at home. It has taken this long to get to this point (although I see the implementation of charging stations accelerating as of late, but I still think this will not meet demand especially in California). People here love the Prius and I am sure the plug in Prius will sell like hotcakes. We are all screwed (at least for the short term):crying:

 

[malcolm]

"Here come the Jets,
just to recharge our cells.
Someone parks in our bay,
someone don't feel so well!"

*sigh*

 

[smoothoperator]

This is what makes it even more frustrating...Seeing a Prius plugged in for 6 hours when they really do not need to be plugged in. This is kinda why I agree with Tesla and their proprietary connectors, it makes it a bit tougher for one of these J1772 Plug in hybrids the ability to utilize a Tesla station. I really hope that they start to put EV chargers in really inconvenient places so that it discourages people to plug in, even if they do not need to, just to get a great parking spot.

On a related note I was at a local mall the other day and for the first time ever I saw all the charging stations completely full (including the Tesla specific chargers)....I did not know if I should be excited or sad

 

[Lloyd]

There's a post on another board where someone reported that he's been seeing more and more Volts hogging a charger all day long (probably while at work). There needs to be a system whereby drivers are fined a significant amount of money if they leave their car plugged in after charging is complete (with a reasonable grace period).

EV's should only be allowed charging spots while charging. Once finished, they need to move the car and free the spot!!

 

[JRP3]

I'm hoping that since the PHEV Prius will probably have the engine coming into play more often, even when fully charged, they will have less drive to plug in whenever possible.
More remote locations for chargers would help, but the reality is that closer to a building is an easier place to install chargers.
(The bottom line is that PHEV's, be they Prius or Volt, don't need away from home charging, because they aren't EV's, they are hybrids).

 

[bonnie]

I'm mixed on this. I think that we need to share the charging spots, BUT I also think that a 'politeness' protocol needs to be established. Share the plug. And I wish the parking spots weren't premium, it doesn't help perception that these 'elitist drivers get to drive in the car pool lane and get the best spots and don't have to pay for fuel'.

If we can convert hybrid, PHEV, EV-ER owners to electric, it will be because they always have enough range to drive without burning gas. That won't happen if they can't charge like everyone else.

I always leave a note on my car with my cell # and the message that 'I'm happy to share the plug, please call me to ensure I have enough range first'. And I'm happy to share with Volt, PIP, and Leaf drivers. Once I have enough range.

 

[smoothoperator]

I'm mixed on this. I think that we need to share the charging spots, BUT I also think that a 'politeness' protocol needs to be established. Share the plug. And I wish the parking spots weren't premium, it doesn't help perception that these 'elitist drivers get to drive in the car pool lane and get the best spots and don't have to pay for fuel'.

If we can convert hybrid, PHEV, EV-ER owners to electric, it will be because they always have enough range to drive without burning gas. That won't happen if they can't charge like everyone else.

I always leave a note on my car with my cell # and the message that 'I'm happy to share the plug, please call me to ensure I have enough range first'. And I'm happy to share with Volt, PIP, and Leaf drivers. Once I have enough range.

There must be a program that can be implemented that will make everyone happy...

Plug in Hybrids will be so ubiquitous...Toyota sold 172k Toyota Prius' last year....Imagine if just 10% of the total amount of prius' sold this year were of the plug in variant (probably much more) thats 17k plug in vehicles on the road from just ONE manufacturer. I cannot see how the infrastructure can catch up within a few months. It is barely adequate right now with maybe 15k plug in vehicles on the road?...When you double or quite possibly 5x that number we all are going to be in for a rude awakening.

 

[MitchL]

The rude awakening might be a good thing, though -- a 5x increase in EVs on the road is actually something to hope for, even if it creates hassles for us early adopters...

... hopefully, it spells "new market" to people willing to spend on infrastructure.

I really like that most charging is free right now, but I'm actually kind of looking forward to paying (nominally, of course!) for charging. When we reach that point, there's a profit motive. It means that businesses have decided that you can make money catering to EV owners, which hopefully spurns more infrastructure investment, which makes future EV owners more comfortable switching to electric, etc.

Then, we won't have to worry too much about a politeness protocol, and we won't be driving in fear that the next charger is either not working or is occupied.

I'm hoping it'll snowball with a bunch more BEVs and PHEVs on the roads. With enough cars out there, owners of strip malls, area shopping centers, and paid garages could all see a new way to get people in and make a few bucks along the way. I already know that if I had a choice of two destinations to shop at, I'd pick the one that had chargers. (then again, I'm speaking as someone who doesn't actually OWN an EV yet...)

/Mitch.