EV Purists Take Note: A Ton Of Plug-in Hybrids Are Coming

If plug-in hybrids mean more electric miles, then why not?

General Motors announced this week that it’s done with plug-in hybrids. This news comes after The General’s decision to kill the Chevy Volt, which for years the company said was far superior to any EV. So now it appears that three companies – Tesla, General Motors, and Nissan – are the EV purists.

Battery-electrics will continue to get all the buzz (because they’re better). But don’t think for a second that plug-in hybrids are going the way of the dodo.

The BMW 5-Series plug-in hybrid outsold the brand’s all-electric i3.



We can argue ad nauseam about the pros and cons of EVs versus PHEVs. And we could analyze the business reasons for why GM changed its tune.

Regardless, the vast majority of automakers are locked and loaded with big plans for plug-in hybrids. They’re coming folks. And because these plug-in hybrids will have increasingly longer all-electric ranges, more and more of our miles will be electric. Isn’t that the point?

Some facts to consider:



The current U.S market has 30 plug-in hybrids compared to 14 pure EVs.

The second biggest electric seller in 2018 was the Toyota Prius Prime. Its starting price is about $27,000.

The only version of the Honda Clarity that sells across the country is the plug-in hybrid.

The Volkswagen group plans to offer 20 new plug-in hybrids in the next couple years – in addition to about 25 pure EVs. The all-electric range of these EVs will grow to about 40 miles.

Ford promises 40 electrified vehicles by 2022. Only a few will be purely electric.

The BMW 530e plug-in hybrid outsold the BMW i3 in 2018. BMW sold twice as many plug-in hybrids as pure EVs in 2018. By 2025, the BMW showroom will have 25 electrified models, and most of them will be plug-in hybrids. BMW’s next X5 plug-in hybrid will offer 50 miles of electric range.

Mercedes-Benz says that its new third-generation plug-in hybrid system, with expanded all-electric range, will be offered across its entire lineup.

Jeep will introduce four new EVs by about 2022 – but the brand will add 10 plug-in hybrids.

Plug-in hybrids are coming to luxury sports car brands as well. Maserati plans to make four pure EVs by about 2022. But it will also offer eight plug-in hybrids.



This article originally appeared on Inside EVs.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I think it's funny that people diss plugin hybrids, but chances are an EV owner has an ICE.

Sure I like the purity of a BEV, but if I had to have one car for everything it would likely be a Plugin Hybrid.

Because I allocate more money to vehicles than most sane/rational people I opted for a Tesla and a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. So I'm a hybrid owner.

 

[dabbler]

I've been driving my Model S as my primary vehicle, no other ICE car in my garage, for the past 147,000 miles. The average charge range for my 85KW car is 235 miles. This has always been plenty of range for my needs. I have traveled from the Midwest to Florida and back, to the east coast and now currently working in South Carolina, and have never had range or charging challenges.

PHEV is a needed "transitional" vehicle for those that struggle with the concept of not having a gas/diesel back up to address range anxiety. Most people don't really know how far they actually drive on a daily basis. Once the charging infrastructure is more accessible, people will migrate to the BEV.

Meijer, Sams, Costco, Kroeger etc. are the most logical locations for public charging. Consumers that spend 30-45 min. shopping, watching a movie, etc. will take advantage of the opportunity to charge when it is convenient. At home charging does not currently address the population living in rental properties. Restaurants that are part of the Tesla Destination Charging program are providing a service that will draw in customers.

Remember, we are at the beginning of a dramatic change in the transportation industry. These transitions will take time similar to the transition from trains to airplanes for mass transit.

 

[Merrill]

The charging network for non-Tesla is sparse many places. The Superchargers are a big part why many people by a Tesla. Even if they never use one, they like the warm feeling that they get from knowing that there is a Supercharger relatively near to most people in the US.

But, Electrify America is building out thanks to the $2 B from the VW dieselgate. They put one near my house that has the really fast charging. 250 miles in something like 30 minutes. It is at a outlet mall with a ton of stores and restaurants. Also, there is a Tesla Supercharger there. So the situation is getting better.

But, most EV owners charge at night, at home, while they sleep like a cell phone. I charge my model X on 40A/240. It adds about 10 KW/hour. The battery is 75 KW, so if it was flat it would be at 100% in 7.5 hours. As a result, when I head out in the morning the car is always ful, so in reality it is never very low unless I am traveling. And EVs are pretty cheap to run. Even the big Model X is get an EPA 90+ MPGe. That is, on the EPA MPG it goes 90+ miles on the electricty bought for the price of a gallon of gas ($2.50) used in the comparison. Obviously smaller, lighter EVs do considerably better than a 6,000 pound GVW SUV like the X.

I've been driving my Model S as my primary vehicle, no other ICE car in my garage, for the past 147,000 miles. The average charge range for my 85KW car is 235 miles. This has always been plenty of range for my needs. I have traveled from the Midwest to Florida and back, to the east coast and now currently working in South Carolina, and have never had range or charging challenges.

PHEV is a needed "transitional" vehicle for those that struggle with the concept of not having a gas/diesel back up to address range anxiety. Most people don't really know how far they actually drive on a daily basis. Once the charging infrastructure is more accessible, people will migrate to the BEV.

Meijer, Sams, Costco, Kroeger etc. are the most logical locations for public charging. Consumers that spend 30-45 min. shopping, watching a movie, etc. will take advantage of the opportunity to charge when it is convenient. At home charging does not currently address the population living in rental properties. Restaurants that are part of the Tesla Destination Charging program are providing a service that will draw in customers.

Remember, we are at the beginning of a dramatic change in the transportation industry. These transitions will take time similar to the transition from trains to airplanes for mass transit.

Totally agree, if you have not watched the video on disruptive technology on clean transportation by Tony Seba you will understand where we are going.

 

[twonius]

The crazy thing is how much PHEVs aren't even on normal people's radars.

I had 2 friends buy Pacificas this year. Neither knew the PHEV was cheaper with the tax credit.

My theory is that in the 2020's battery prices will mean you'll be paying a lot for the occasional convenience of a gas range extender and still having to get your "EV" smogged.

For a passenger car their time has passed but you could definitely tempt me with an XC90 T8

 

[ricohman]

I couldn't possibly disagree more... So much I laughed at your post both literally and figuratively...

Jeff

I am considering a model 3 when a hybrid is obviously a better choice. The 3 will remain parked for the winter as it does not have the range.
There are zero charging stations where I live. And it's approaching -36 right now.
So yes, hybrids are a far safer choice in my situation. I will use my truck when winter comes or my old beaters.

 

[ricohman]

I've been driving my Model S as my primary vehicle, no other ICE car in my garage, for the past 147,000 miles. The average charge range for my 85KW car is 235 miles. This has always been plenty of range for my needs. I have traveled from the Midwest to Florida and back, to the east coast and now currently working in South Carolina, and have never had range or charging challenges.

PHEV is a needed "transitional" vehicle for those that struggle with the concept of not having a gas/diesel back up to address range anxiety. Most people don't really know how far they actually drive on a daily basis. Once the charging infrastructure is more accessible, people will migrate to the BEV.

Meijer, Sams, Costco, Kroeger etc. are the most logical locations for public charging. Consumers that spend 30-45 min. shopping, watching a movie, etc. will take advantage of the opportunity to charge when it is convenient. At home charging does not currently address the population living in rental properties. Restaurants that are part of the Tesla Destination Charging program are providing a service that will draw in customers.

Remember, we are at the beginning of a dramatic change in the transportation industry. These transitions will take time similar to the transition from trains to airplanes for mass transit.

Depends on where you live. EV's are a summer car where I live.

 

[Merrill]

I am considering a model 3 when a hybrid is obviously a better choice. The 3 will remain parked for the winter as it does not have the range.
There are zero charging stations where I live. And it's approaching -36 right now.
So yes, hybrids are a far safer choice in my situation. I will use my truck when winter comes or my old beaters.

Wow, I agree with you a big 4 wheel drive unit would be my vehicle. Not sure I would even want to barbecue in -36 degree weather.

 

[VT_EE]

I can tell you why the BMW plug in out sold the i3, because the i3 is ugly. Now if BMW made a nice looking BEV that would sell.

It’s fugly, not ugly

 

[VT_EE]

I am considering a model 3 when a hybrid is obviously a better choice. The 3 will remain parked for the winter as it does not have the range.
There are zero charging stations where I live. And it's approaching -36 right now.
So yes, hybrids are a far safer choice in my situation. I will use my truck when winter comes or my old beaters.

At that temp, you are right on.

 

[roblab]

I think it's funny that people diss plugin hybrids, but chances are an EV owner has an ICE.

Chances are an EV owner has another EV. Maybe smaller chances, but even ICE drivers eventually get it.

As I tell hybrid owners, "Baby steps. Just keep doing baby steps... until you can run."

 

[ricohman]

Chances are an EV owner has another EV. Maybe smaller chances, but even ICE drivers eventually get it.

As I tell hybrid owners, "Baby steps. Just keep doing baby steps... until you can run."

No. Just if you live in the banana belt.

 

[Prunesquallor]

I am considering a model 3 when a hybrid is obviously a better choice. The 3 will remain parked for the winter as it does not have the range.
There are zero charging stations where I live. And it's approaching -36 right now.
So yes, hybrids are a far safer choice in my situation. I will use my truck when winter comes or my old beaters.

In your climate, I agree with you 100%. I’d have the biggest, baddest, 4WD, gas survival vehicle I could find.

I had a 2013 4WD Grand Cherokee. It was a good vehicle, but I actually never needed the 4WD, seldom used the cargo space and it was more than 100 miles away from home exactly once in six years. I didn’t see that usage changing, so a Model 3 seemed like a good idea.

 

[Akikiki]

A ton huh? A ton of plug-in hybrids. So that's how many two? Yeah, wow. Real news, I guess.

 

[Jeff Hudson]

No. Just if you live in the banana belt.

I do not think EV's would be on my mind at all if I lived in Saskatchewan. I have said it many times that EV's are not for everybody. Aside from the drivers living under extreme climate conditions who cannot use EV's there are plenty more that live in temperate climates but their apartments, condos or townhouses have no dedicated overnight L2 electrical charging infrastructure.

 

[ricohman]

I do not think EV's would be on my mind at all if I lived in Saskatchewan. I have said it many times that EV's are not for everybody. Aside from the drivers living under extreme climate conditions who cannot use EV's there are plenty more that live in temperate climates but their apartments, condos or townhouses have no dedicated overnight L2 electrical charging infrastructure.

Very true. It is -36 out and there are apartment parking lots full of cars.

 

[Jeff Hudson]

Very true. It is -36 out and there are apartment parking lots full of cars.

I'm curious about your apartment complex. Are there L1 electrical drops throughout the parking lot for engine block heaters? If so, have you had any discussions with management about upgrading them to 20, 30 or 40 amp L2's? I know even the availability of a 40 amp L2 for EV charging would not be my preferred method of transportation unless my commute was short enough to walk to shelter if an emergency was thrust upon me. Referring back to this threads' theme, because of the dual nature and added drivetrain complexity I think I would like a PHEV even less under your sub-zero weather conditions.

 

[ricohman]

I'm curious about your apartment complex. Are there L1 electrical drops throughout the parking lot for engine block heaters? If so, have you had any discussions with management about upgrading them to 20, 30 or 40 amp L2's? I know even the availability of a 40 amp L2 for EV charging would not be my preferred method of transportation unless my commute was short enough to walk to shelter if an emergency was thrust upon me. Referring back to this threads' theme, because of the dual nature and added drivetrain complexity I think I would like a PHEV even less under your sub-zero weather conditions.

I live in the country and I was referring to the city where I have many friends and some family.
Most parking lots are 110v. And they run only half the time if it is warmer than -20. Once colder than -20 they run at 75%. If it gets below -35 they run at 100%. This applies to parking lots at work as well. A building manager once told me that the reason they do not allow car heaters and block heaters to be used at the same time is that the system is overloaded at more then 1200w per vehicle.
Electricity is expensive and with the coming carbon taxes will get more so.
I always dress as if I have to walk when it gets cold. With the wind chill it can get dicey when it dips below -40. Those who don't freeze to death which happens all to frequently.
I should add that the Prius is the most common taxi in Regina.

 

[Jeff Hudson]

I should add that the Prius is the most common taxi in Regina.

The Prius never ceases to amaze me. Not that it is an especially capable vehicle but that it is so durable. I'm surprised it is being used as a taxi much less under such adverse weather conditions. My brother-in-law has a first generation Prius that he bought it new and has been driving it every day in Washington DC which has some of the worse streets. Sure it crashes over the potholes and heaved, uneven pavement but it is still going and he will brag all day long about his gas mileage. I consider the first generation Prius a light hybrid. I have no idea about the durability of the later model Prius.

 

[dzmconstr]

...the PHEV was cheaper with the tax credit.

Way wrong on that one....just cause the taxpayers pay the $7,500, or $3,750, or $1,875 etc, doesn't make the car cheaper.....it still costs the same, witness the sticker, it's just that someone else ie me, you and the other taxpayers are paying for part of the car.

Dzm

 

[twonius]

Way wrong on that one....just cause the taxpayers pay the $7,500, or $3,750, or $1,875 etc, doesn't make the car cheaper.....it still costs the same, witness the sticker, it's just that someone else ie me, you and the other taxpayers are paying for part of the car.

Dzm

Now do the mortgage interest deduction.