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EV Purists Take Note: A Ton Of Plug-in Hybrids Are Coming

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If plug-in hybrids mean more electric miles, then why not?

General Motors announced this week that it’s done with plug-in hybrids. This news comes after The General’s decision to kill the Chevy Volt, which for years the company said was far superior to any EV. So now it appears that three companies – Tesla, General Motors, and Nissan – are the EV purists.

Battery-electrics will continue to get all the buzz (because they’re better). But don’t think for a second that plug-in hybrids are going the way of the dodo.



bmw-530e-1920.jpg
The BMW 5-Series plug-in hybrid outsold the brand’s all-electric i3.



We can argue ad nauseam about the pros and cons of EVs versus PHEVs. And we could analyze the business reasons for why GM changed its tune.

Regardless, the vast majority of automakers are locked and loaded with big plans for plug-in hybrids. They’re coming folks. And because these plug-in hybrids will have increasingly longer all-electric ranges, more and more of our miles will be electric. Isn’t that the point?

Some facts to consider:



The current U.S market has 30 plug-in hybrids compared to 14 pure EVs.

The second biggest electric seller in 2018 was the Toyota Prius Prime. Its starting price is about $27,000.

The only version of the Honda Clarity that sells across the country is the plug-in hybrid.

The Volkswagen group plans to offer 20 new plug-in hybrids in the next couple years – in addition to about 25 pure EVs. The all-electric range of these EVs will grow to about 40 miles.

Ford promises 40 electrified vehicles by 2022. Only a few will be purely electric.

The BMW 530e plug-in hybrid outsold the BMW i3 in 2018. BMW sold twice as many plug-in hybrids as pure EVs in 2018. By 2025, the BMW showroom will have 25 electrified models, and most of them will be plug-in hybrids. BMW’s next X5 plug-in hybrid will offer 50 miles of electric range.

Mercedes-Benz says that its new third-generation plug-in hybrid system, with expanded all-electric range, will be offered across its entire lineup.

Jeep will introduce four new EVs by about 2022 – but the brand will add 10 plug-in hybrids.

Plug-in hybrids are coming to luxury sports car brands as well. Maserati plans to make four pure EVs by about 2022. But it will also offer eight plug-in hybrids.



This article originally appeared on Inside EVs.

 
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There was a Chevrolet Volt up the street from me and I never once saw it plugged in. I walked my dogs by this house almost daily and I always wondered why it was never plugged in. I haven't seen it for a while. I think it was sold for something more conventional.
 
My point was implied that hybrid owners are not necessarily the most knowledgeable of consumers and by further implication that hybrid producers may very well be producing hybrids for reasons totally at odds with EV manufacturers. Furthermore it is not too much of a stretch to state hybrid manufacturers have a plethora of reasons for producing hybrid vehicles with the only intention that they are good for staying in business. I think this post is pretty clear that I think EV's are the much superior transportation technology. I left unsaid that I think EV's with range extenders are an unnecessary extra complication for the consumer but that light hybrids like the early Toyota Prius are pretty consumer friendly. I believe most consumers looking to purchase a vehicle are easily confused with all of the choices and may find it hard to understand all of the issues.
 
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Plug-in hybrids exist simply because there is no extensive charging network that charges cars fast enough aside from Tesla superchargers. They will go away eventually as charging options become more plentiful because more people will be able to take longer trips without using gas. Internal combustion engines need to be run to keep parts lubricated, burn gas before it gets stale, etc. I don't know about other OEMs but the Volt ( in my opinion the best engineered of the plug-in hybrids ) uses something called FMM to solve this problem.The whole concept of burning gas for the sole purpose of keeping the gas engine operable is an inefficiency that will cease to make sense.
 
My point was implied that hybrid owners are not necessarily the most knowledgeable of consumers and by further implication that hybrid producers may very well be producing hybrids for reasons totally at odds with EV manufacturers. Furthermore it is not too much of a stretch to state hybrid manufacturers have a plethora of reasons for producing hybrid vehicles with the only intention that they are good for staying in business. I think this post is pretty clear that I think EV's are the much superior transportation technology. I left unsaid that I think EV's with range extenders are an unnecessary extra complication for the consumer but that light hybrids like the early Toyota Prius are pretty consumer friendly. I believe most consumers looking to purchase a vehicle are easily confused with all of the choices and may find it hard to understand all of the issues.
Wow arrogant much? How about facts before you denigrate hybrid owners. 2016 median income in US was about $57,500. Cost of a fully loaded 2016 Prius abou $33,700. Cost of a fully loaded Volt Premiere about $40,000. The lowest base Tesla S started at about $72,000 (S70), the next up was about $82,000 (S80), both without a single option. I’ll let you figure out TCO for each and then you tell me who’s more knowledgeable....

And to back it up, friend drives a volt. Gets full day driving on battery, to/fro work, and after 2 years is only on his third tank of gas. Charges at home, Whole Foods, other spots. Cost him probably $20k less than your model 3, yet gets him from point a to b as needed. They are both just modes of transportation, correct?
Dzm
 
Wow arrogant much? How about facts before you denigrate hybrid owners. 2016 median income in US was about $57,500. Cost of a fully loaded 2016 Prius abou $33,700. Cost of a fully loaded Volt Premiere about $40,000. The lowest base Tesla S started at about $72,000 (S70), the next up was about $82,000 (S80), both without a single option. I’ll let you figure out TCO for each and then you tell me who’s more knowledgeable....

And to back it up, friend drives a volt. Gets full day driving on battery, to/fro work, and after 2 years is only on his third tank of gas. Charges at home, Whole Foods, other spots. Cost him probably $20k less than your model 3, yet gets him from point a to b as needed. They are both just modes of transportation, correct?
Dzm

The issues I have with a hybrid is you are trying to keep a foot in both camps. And that is not necessary. It is not about price because a Bolt is around $35K and with the 7,500 credit is below $30K. Same pricing with 2019 Hyundai Kona EV, which looks to be as good or better than to Bolt, and Hyundai has their full 200,000 EV quota left.

The issue with hybrids trying to keep a foot in both camps is that you end up with a compromised. The benefits of owning an BEV go beyond performance and coolness for not burning gas. There are 20 or less moving parts in the drive train of an EV versus 1,000 for a ICE car and even more for a hybrid. This decrease wear part count leads to decreased maintenance. For BEV there are no oil changes, tune ups, exhaust system maintenance, radiator flushes, etc. ICE cars have all these, and hybrids have these and other hybrid drive components to service. For a Tesla there is a brake fluid service and inspections in the first 4 years. And the less to service, the lower the maintenance costs.

It will be interesting to see how the car industry shakes out of the next few years. We may be seeing the old guard failing away and upstarts like Hyundai and Chinese companies dominating Asia at the expense of Toyota, Honda, and perhaps to a lesser degree Nissan.
 
It will be interesting to see how the car industry shakes out of the next few years. We may be seeing the old guard failing away and upstarts like Hyundai and Chinese companies dominating Asia at the expense of Toyota, Honda, and perhaps to a lesser degree Nissan.

I think you hit it there. When I bought my 2010 Prius, what comparable EV option did I have? When I bought my 2013 Highlander Hybrid Limited, what comparable EV option did I have?

Don't compare Apples of 5 years ago, with Oranges of options buyers are starting to have next year. Not to mention that fact that has been stated a million times on here - the charging network of today, is not the charging network of even last year, let alone 5 years ago. Matter of fact go look at Superchargers in Eastern VA and NC....sparse. So what am I supposed to do, go 250 miles and then re-charge at 40amps? Not a chance. My Hybrid SUV gets me 500 miles to a tank of gas at 30mpg. I'd like to replace it with an X or Rivian RT1/RS1, but how do I charge on the eastern shore of VA or the Outer Banks of NC?
Dzm
 
I think you hit it there. When I bought my 2010 Prius, what comparable EV option did I have? When I bought my 2013 Highlander Hybrid Limited, what comparable EV option did I have?

Don't compare Apples of 5 years ago, with Oranges of options buyers are starting to have next year. Not to mention that fact that has been stated a million times on here - the charging network of today, is not the charging network of even last year, let alone 5 years ago. Matter of fact go look at Superchargers in Eastern VA and NC....sparse. So what am I supposed to do, go 250 miles and then re-charge at 40amps? Not a chance. My Hybrid SUV gets me 500 miles to a tank of gas at 30mpg. I'd like to replace it with an X or Rivian RT1/RS1, but how do I charge on the eastern shore of VA or the Outer Banks of NC?
Dzm

The charging network for non-Tesla is sparse many places. The Superchargers are a big part why many people by a Tesla. Even if they never use one, they like the warm feeling that they get from knowing that there is a Supercharger relatively near to most people in the US.

But, Electrify America is building out thanks to the $2 B from the VW dieselgate. They put one near my house that has the really fast charging. 250 miles in something like 30 minutes. It is at a outlet mall with a ton of stores and restaurants. Also, there is a Tesla Supercharger there. So the situation is getting better.

But, most EV owners charge at night, at home, while they sleep like a cell phone. I charge my model X on 40A/240. It adds about 10 KW/hour. The battery is 75 KW, so if it was flat it would be at 100% in 7.5 hours. As a result, when I head out in the morning the car is always ful, so in reality it is never very low unless I am traveling. And EVs are pretty cheap to run. Even the big Model X is get an EPA 90+ MPGe. That is, on the EPA MPG it goes 90+ miles on the electricty bought for the price of a gallon of gas ($2.50) used in the comparison. Obviously smaller, lighter EVs do considerably better than a 6,000 pound GVW SUV like the X.
 
There was a Chevrolet Volt up the street from me and I never once saw it plugged in. I walked my dogs by this house almost daily and I always wondered why it was never plugged in. I haven't seen it for a while. I think it was sold for something more conventional.
A lot of weird things happen that sensible people would not think of.
Example: Chevy Volt is issued as a company car. There are no charging stations at the company offices. The employee is given a gas card to pay for gas. There is no mechanism to reimburse for electricity used to charge the car at home. Logically, the employee never plugs it in. Everyone they ask about the situation at the company shrugs it off.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: NeverFollow
Ya, a PEHV is a crutch.

We don't take our ELR on long trips now for this reason. It's a fantastic driving car, but with only 40 miles till the NVH generator starts it stays close to home. Destination charging isn't really an option due to the slow 3.3kw charger.

-J
 
The issues I have with a hybrid is you are trying to keep a foot in both camps. And that is not necessary. It is not about price because a Bolt is around $35K and with the 7,500 credit is below $30K. Same pricing with 2019 Hyundai Kona EV, which looks to be as good or better than to Bolt, and Hyundai has their full 200,000 EV quota left.

The issue with hybrids trying to keep a foot in both camps is that you end up with a compromised. The benefits of owning an BEV go beyond performance and coolness for not burning gas. There are 20 or less moving parts in the drive train of an EV versus 1,000 for a ICE car and even more for a hybrid. This decrease wear part count leads to decreased maintenance. For BEV there are no oil changes, tune ups, exhaust system maintenance, radiator flushes, etc. ICE cars have all these, and hybrids have these and other hybrid drive components to service. For a Tesla there is a brake fluid service and inspections in the first 4 years. And the less to service, the lower the maintenance costs.

It will be interesting to see how the car industry shakes out of the next few years. We may be seeing the old guard failing away and upstarts like Hyundai and Chinese companies dominating Asia at the expense of Toyota, Honda, and perhaps to a lesser degree Nissan.

I'd need to go back to the source material but it'd be interesting to see at which battery cost point it reaches PHEV parity where it's just cheaper to go full EV.

Considering how close we are to the $100/kwh benchmark I'd guess we're already there or even past the benchmark.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: pilotSteve
Model 3 real-world range in any kind of climate is under 200 miles despite the 310 rating - I just did my first long trip in winter weather and it was kind of a pain even with supercharging Outside of major metros, it's just not enough. An EV needs to go 500 miles to be truly competitive with a gas car. That's just the math. For one-car families, plug-ins are really the only option for a practical replacement to a gas car.
 
Model 3 real-world range in any kind of climate is under 200 miles despite the 310 rating - I just did my first long trip in winter weather and it was kind of a pain even with supercharging Outside of major metros, it's just not enough. An EV needs to go 500 miles to be truly competitive with a gas car. That's just the math. For one-car families, plug-ins are really the only option for a practical replacement to a gas car.

I couldn't possibly disagree more... So much I laughed at your post both literally and figuratively...

Jeff
 
  • Like
Reactions: EVCollies
I'll tell you why not. It gives people a false alternative to EV. A wasted effort on both sides.

A PHEV was our gateway drug to a Tesla. I had reservations for years on the S, X and 3, but could not pull the trigger. In the meantime, I was buying BMW 7, Audi A8 and Mercedes. It was my wife's PHEV that left us wanting more electric range and acclimated us to pull the trigger on a full EV.

PHEV is a bridge many people may need before they go EV. Baby steps, walk before you run, etc.
 
Model 3 real-world range in any kind of climate is under 200 miles despite the 310 rating - I just did my first long trip in winter weather and it was kind of a pain even with supercharging Outside of major metros, it's just not enough. An EV needs to go 500 miles to be truly competitive with a gas car. That's just the math. For one-car families, plug-ins are really the only option for a practical replacement to a gas car.

The ratings for all cars are based on the same tests. One thing to remember is the US Highway test has a max speed of 60 MPH. Drive down the road at 75 and you are going to get many few miles than on the sticker regardless if the car is gas or electric powered.