EV tariffs - really only 3 at the moment?

[DaveNN]

Or bite the bullet and fit battery storage for home ( and Solar for thw whole hog apprach) then charge those batts at 10p too... Yes its big upfront cost but the potential for "everything at 10p in nov/dec/jan/feb and pretty much free for rest of year will start to offset it pretty quickly...

To be transparent i have 12kwh of batts and 6.5kw panels... so am a little biased.. but funded via mortgage cost me nothing up front at 100quid a month. Im saving more than that.

My batteries are being nailed in next week and the PV to follow.
I'd guesstimate at a ROI of 6yrs at today's rates....+ I can take the lot with me should I decide to sell up.

 

[Jason71]

Or bite the bullet and fit battery storage for home ( and Solar for thw whole hog apprach) then charge those batts at 10p too... Yes its big upfront cost but the potential for "everything at 10p in nov/dec/jan/feb and pretty much free for rest of year will start to offset it pretty quickly...

To be transparent i have 12kwh of batts and 6.5kw panels... so am a little biased.. but funded via mortgage cost me nothing up front at 100quid a A

At the risk of taking this thread WAY off topic.
How many years at £100 per month are you paying that over to cover the cost of the batteries + interest? and will they actually last that long.
I have looked at batteries and cool as they are they never appears to be a particularly strong economic case for them when using honest maths.

 

[yessuz]

And two standing charges?

why everyone is so obsessed with standing harge? you talk about 20-40 p a day. 1 kwh cost the same amount and many people do not even think when they turn on light or kettle

 

[yessuz]

talking about batteries and investment, I a bit in the wobble.

Like I understand that you invest like 15k and then save.. that would be, let's say 150 - 200 a month as repayment.

but at the same time, I look at my electricity bill (at the moment) which is under 150 gbp a month in reality. and I would save, in region between 50 to 80 gbp (man maths)

so I see it as spending 200 in order to save 50.

and at the same time, it will take 10 years of power usage to spend the same as solar install cost... ;/

*sugar*, I wish I had 15k in my bank account right now... :/

 

[DaveW]

I'd also like a home battery to take advantage of the cheap rate, I need to get a quote and see if I can make the maths work.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I wish I had 15k in my bank account right now...

For me, that's the man maths I used.

If you have £15K invested somewhere and cash that in and buy "PV and Battery" then you get the "Electricity bill saving" instead of the "investment interest" .

You pay tax on "investment interest" on your savings account, whereas the "Electricity bill saving" is tax free.

Also the "investment interest" is somewhat fixed - i.e. you have a fixed sum of money paying out a fixed amount of interest (depending on interest rates) , i.e. the Interest is not index-linked - assuming you draw out the interest (e.g. to pay the electricity bill)

Whereas the "Electricity bill saving" is both index-linked and also for any unexpected massive price increases that come along. Basically you have reduced your electricity bill by X% so you no longer pay X% of the bill, regardless of how much it rises to.

So if PV + Battery can be afforded from "savings" I think the maths work well comparison a conventional savings account, and tax, with reduced electricity bills

I take your point that if your electricity usage is "tiny" you can't make the saving But if PV / Battery is "sized right" for your consumption, then I think?? you would get the saving.

For me, I want the Battery to charge to 100% each day (from PV in Summer and from Off Peak in Winter) and discharge down to zero (during the night in Summer, and during the Day in Winter).

I also don't want the PV to generate more than I use and battery can store (excepting what I can then put into the car - but that assumes 1: Car at home on Sunny Days and 2: Car battery isn't already full from yesterday's sunshine!) - 'coz the price I am paid for Export is tiny (mind you ... its better than nothing)

 

[bluemoonrising]

I switched from Octopus's variable rate to Intelligent Octopus (yesterday) but I don't understand the quoted rates. I've been put on the tariff "Intelligent Octopus July 2022 v1".

The rate between 23:30 and 05:30 shows as 7.50p but I thought it was supposed to be 10p now? I also didn't know that Intelligent was a fixed tariff and it says I'm locked in until 2024, so I'm assuming that 7.50p can't change?

My day rate has however increased from around 33p variable rate to 39.25p but again this is less than expected when I signed up where it was quoted as 40p+.....

I'm not complaining about any of this at all! It seems like I'm missing something though and it's like they've put me on an old tariff or it just doesn't show the prices properly?

(If it's correct then I'll stay quiet from here....)

 

[Durzel]

It seems to vary between 7.5p and 10p by region.

What does it say it should be on here: Octopus Energy ?

 

[spooksman]

why everyone is so obsessed with standing harge? you talk about 20-40 p a day. 1 kwh cost the same amount and many people do not even think when they turn on light or kettle

At about £12 a month that's free Premium Connectivity - there seem to be plenty of people on here that won't pay that and would rather save the money (which is totally fine) - same argument applies...

 

[bluemoonrising]

It seems to vary between 7.5p and 10p by region.

What does it say it should be on here: Octopus Energy ?

It's very odd.

If I enter my postcode through that link the day rate is 41.63p, off-peak is 10p which is what I expected when signing up.

The intelligent tariff I started yesterday however is 39.25p, off-peak is 7.5p and it's fixed until 04/01/2024.

I guess what they quote isn't always what you get so I'm not complaining!

 

[phil4]

I switched from Octopus's variable rate to Intelligent Octopus (yesterday) but I don't understand the quoted rates. I've been put on the tariff "Intelligent Octopus July 2022 v1".

The rate between 23:30 and 05:30 shows as 7.50p but I thought it was supposed to be 10p now? I also didn't know that Intelligent was a fixed tariff and it says I'm locked in until 2024, so I'm assuming that 7.50p can't change?

....

I'm not complaining about any of this at all! It seems like I'm missing something though and it's like they've put me on an old tariff or it just doesn't show the prices properly?

Yep, looks like you've been put on an old tariff. It's the one I signed up to in August last year, fixed until August this year, at the rates you quote. Well done!

 

[Redbaron73]

At the risk of taking this thread WAY off topic.
How many years at £100 per month are you paying that over to cover the cost of the batteries + interest? and will they actually last that long.
I have looked at batteries and cool as they are they never appears to be a particularly strong economic case for them when using honest maths.

My mortgage term is the same as the expected lifetime of the batteries. Appreciate this doesnt work for everyone, but given saving a 100quid a month of the elec bill may be as little as 200kwh come April I am pretty confident in my maths...

For me, that's the man maths I used.

If you have £15K invested somewhere and cash that in and buy "PV and Battery" then you get the "Electricity bill saving" instead of the "investment interest" .

You pay tax on "investment interest" on your savings account, whereas the "Electricity bill saving" is tax free.

Also the "investment interest" is somewhat fixed - i.e. you have a fixed sum of money paying out a fixed amount of interest (depending on interest rates) , i.e. the Interest is not index-linked - assuming you draw out the interest (e.g. to pay the electricity bill)

Whereas the "Electricity bill saving" is both index-linked and also for any unexpected massive price increases that come along. Basically you have reduced your electricity bill by X% so you no longer pay X% of the bill, regardless of how much it rises to.

So if PV + Battery can be afforded from "savings" I think the maths work well comparison a conventional savings account, and tax, with reduced electricity bills

I take your point that if your electricity usage is "tiny" you can't make the saving But if PV / Battery is "sized right" for your consumption, then I think?? you would get the saving.

For me, I want the Battery to charge to 100% each day (from PV in Summer and from Off Peak in Winter) and discharge down to zero (during the night in Summer, and during the Day in Winter).

I also don't want the PV to generate more than I use and battery can store (excepting what I can then put into the car - but that assumes 1: Car at home on Sunny Days and 2: Car battery isn't already full from yesterday's sunshine!) - 'coz the price I am paid for Export is tiny (mind you ... its better than nothing)

This is broadly what i aimed to do... and there are always some compromises... i system that on a winters rain snow dark day may gen 1-2kwh can on a balls out summers day generate 40+kwh so yes having the car at home most days is essential to "game the system". Im fortunate that i WFH mostly so i should be able to use as much as possible.

 

[DaveNN]

For me, that's the man maths I used.

If you have £15K invested somewhere and cash that in and buy "PV and Battery" then you get the "Electricity bill saving" instead of the "investment interest" .

You pay tax on "investment interest" on your savings account, whereas the "Electricity bill saving" is tax free.

Also the "investment interest" is somewhat fixed - i.e. you have a fixed sum of money paying out a fixed amount of interest (depending on interest rates) , i.e. the Interest is not index-linked - assuming you draw out the interest (e.g. to pay the electricity bill)

Whereas the "Electricity bill saving" is both index-linked and also for any unexpected massive price increases that come along. Basically you have reduced your electricity bill by X% so you no longer pay X% of the bill, regardless of how much it rises to.

So if PV + Battery can be afforded from "savings" I think the maths work well comparison a conventional savings account, and tax, with reduced electricity bills

I take your point that if your electricity usage is "tiny" you can't make the saving But if PV / Battery is "sized right" for your consumption, then I think?? you would get the saving.

For me, I want the Battery to charge to 100% each day (from PV in Summer and from Off Peak in Winter) and discharge down to zero (during the night in Summer, and during the Day in Winter).

I also don't want the PV to generate more than I use and battery can store (excepting what I can then put into the car - but that assumes 1: Car at home on Sunny Days and 2: Car battery isn't already full from yesterday's sunshine!) - 'coz the price I am paid for Export is tiny (mind you ... its better than nothing)

I just looked at the paltry 4%ish return on my fixed rate bonds and figured that at a ROI anywhere near 10yrs would be great. My complete install will come in at £10k and I can't imagine batteries etc dropping in price any day soon.

 

[Jason71]

It's very odd.

If I enter my postcode through that link the day rate is 41.63p, off-peak is 10p which is what I expected when signing up.

The intelligent tariff I started yesterday however is 39.25p, off-peak is 7.5p and it's fixed until 04/01/2024.

I guess what they quote isn't always what you get so I'm not complaining!

Octopus have some form for this.
They rolled a bunch of people on GoFaster over for another year in late2020/early2021 at the old price. As a result I am still on 13.7p/4.5p and will be until March
Take the win

 

[Nd4me]

At the risk of taking this thread WAY off topic.
How many years at £100 per month are you paying that over to cover the cost of the batteries + interest? and will they actually last that long.
I have looked at batteries and cool as they are they never appears to be a particularly strong economic case for them when using honest maths.

Having made an economic case to get an expensive and constantly depreciating Tesla, the case to invest in solar and home battery was an easy decision for me to make.

 

[Drew57]

For me, I want the Battery to charge to 100% each day (from PV in Summer and from Off Peak in Winter) and discharge down to zero (during the night in Summer, and during the Day in Winter).

I also don't want the PV to generate more than I use and battery can store (excepting what I can then put into the car - but that assumes 1: Car at home on Sunny Days and 2: Car battery isn't already full from yesterday's sunshine!) - 'coz the price I am paid for Export is tiny (mind you ... its better than nothing)

Almost exactly what I do & it works perfectly.

My rationale when getting PV/batteries was that we're unlikely to die with zero left as liquid assets & 'ideally' the Daughters will only inherit our house. Therefore we might as well spend the money now & write it off so we at least get reduced energy costs from this rather than it sit there & ultimately benefit them rather than us.

ROI on this system is only important to me if I think I might one day need 'my last £15k' & I was happy to gamble that I won't!

Edit: I will also receive escalating FIT payments for many more years until completion.

 

[Jason71]

Having made an economic case to get an expensive and constantly depreciating Tesla, the case to invest in solar and home battery was an easy decision for me to make.

So what you are saying is that having made one very large economically questionable decision it then became much easier to make other smaller ones without having to think about them. Fair enough

 

[DaveNN]

So what you are saying is that having made one very large economically questionable decision it then became much easier to make other smaller ones without having to think about them. Fair enough

I can't see PV with battery backup being economically questionable.

 

[Durzel]

Octopus have some form for this.
They rolled a bunch of people on GoFaster over for another year in late2020/early2021 at the old price. As a result I am still on 13.7p/4.5p and will be until March
Take the win

Same, although mine ends on the 15th of this month. Can't really complain though, gift horses and mouths etc.

 

[MadManMark]

With the Day rate on Go/Intelligence being much higher than the price cap right now it begs the question so how much night time electricity do I have to use to make it actually cheaper to use IO/Go.
So I thought I would work it out.

using typical figures of:
Price Cap Fixed Rate = 34p
Go/IO day rate = 41.6p
Go Night = 12p
IO Night = 10p
That means that currently to break even with price cap you would have to overnight use:
IO = 22.6%
Go = 24.1%
Use less than that and flat rate price cap is cheaper. use more and Go/IO is better. That might sound like a lot but I recon the average 3-4 bed with gas heating might use between 10-20 kwh per day (excluding charging) which means you would only have to be charging for between 2.5-5 hours per week on a 7kw charger before reaching the break even point.
This is the worst case of course that assumes no other night time use like dishwasher/tumble drier etc. if you are using a couple of kw a night anyway that number could easily fall to as little as 1.5-3.5 hours charging a week to break even.
for reference ( by my GCSE maths) the formula to work out the % of electricity that has to be used at night rate to break even is:

100*(Fixed rate - Day rate)/(Night rate - Day rate)

this is all assuming standing charge is the same on all tariffs or close enough to make no difference

I do about 500kwh of charging per month and we load shift as much as we can into the cheap IO slot(s) - washing machine, HW immersion heater, tumble dryer and dishwasher are all run during off peak slots whenever possible. Our average cost per kWh per month is currently in the 14-16p range. 7.5p off peak / 40p peak.