EV6 GT gets track mode out of the box and yet the Y still doesn't....

[Corndart]

Why should we as consumers care about sales numbers though? I don't work for Tesla so that's meaningless to me... I just want the best car possible and it seems like the EV6 has surpassed the MYP, not rocket science here.

Too many people in here are trying to obfuscate the main subject with sales numbers and other data points that have zero value to the consumer, intrinsic or otherwise.

How else would you objectively define success? "the best car possible" is a completely subjective statement, and a bulleted list of features doesn't necessarily add up to it either.

If every time another BEV announced a new vehicle, and Tesla attempts to ship "the best car possible" and stay ahead of the competition, they'd never ship a car. Or their running change list would alienate someone that got "the old stuff", or cause people to refuse delivery of a car waiting for the "better stuff". There will be a continual stream of new cars that offer stuff the MYP doesn't have. If you're in the market and someone else develops a package that is more appealling, go buy it. But this entire narrative over Tesla needing to panick, introduce track mode, et al is inane.

 

[804son]

How else would you objectively define success? "the best car possible" is a completely subjective statement, and a bulleted list of features doesn't necessarily add up to it either.

If every time another BEV announced a new vehicle, and Tesla attempts to ship "the best car possible" and stay ahead of the competition, they'd never ship a car. Or their running change list would alienate someone that got "the old stuff", or cause people to refuse delivery of a car waiting for the "better stuff". There will be a continual stream of new cars that offer stuff the MYP doesn't have. If you're in the market and someone else develops a package that is more appealling, go buy it. But this entire narrative over Tesla needing to panick, introduce track mode, et al is inane.

Then blame Elon and Tesla for giving the "OK" for track mode on the Model Y Performance and then not delivering it. Pretty simple really they said they would, now people expect it.

 

[White Shadow]

Tesla Leads the Way on R&D Spending

LONDON—Unlike other automakers, Tesla shuns advertising and pours money into research and development efforts.

www.assemblymag.com

Tesla spends the most R&D and least in advertising per car sold

A new report shows that Tesla is spending more in research and development (R&D) per car than any other automaker...

electrek.co

Tesla Research and Development Expenses 2010-2023 | TSLA

Tesla annual/quarterly research and development expenses history and growth rate from 2010 to 2023. Research and development expenses can be defined as an expense arising from studies and product development processes. <ul style='margin-top:10px;'> <li>Tesla research and...

www.macrotrends.net

No....lol. I think you missed the part where they said that Tesla spends more money on R&D PER CAR than any other manufacturer. And that may be true, but their R&D is nowhere near legacy automakers, who spend FAR more than Tesla. We're talking billions, not millions. Tesla doesn't even make the list:

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/automobile-companies-and-rd%3A-top-5-spenders-2021-07-14

 

[Corndart]

Then blame Elon and Tesla for giving the "OK" for track mode on the Model Y Performance and then not delivering it. Pretty simple really they said they would, now people expect it.

So is this about the EV6 GT being a "better car" or Elon tweeting empty words yet again? The latter happens a lot, and the former is and will always be a highly subjective statement.

 

[Corndart]

No....lol. I think you missed the part where they said that Tesla spends more money on R&D PER CAR than any other manufacturer. And that may be true, but their R&D is nowhere near legacy automakers, who spend FAR more than Tesla. We're talking billions, not millions. Tesla doesn't even make the list:

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/automobile-companies-and-rd%3A-top-5-spenders-2021-07-14

My statistics and econ professors are both turning in their graves right now.

As a % of income is how you'd compare R&D budgets between companies, there are other ways to try and normalize the data but a raw number is meaningless.

 

[Tha_Ape]

Higher top speed is just bragging rights. It's not practical, not even on a racetrack.

 

[White Shadow]

My statistics and econ professors are both turning in their graves right now.

As a % of income is how you'd compare R&D budgets between companies, there are other ways to try and normalize the data but a raw number is meaningless.

Not when the statement was made that Tesla spends "much more on R&D than any other legacy makers..." it's not. And for what it's worth, it's not a percentage of income. Tesla spends more R&D money per car sold than other auto manufacturers. The problem is, Tesla doesn't sell many cars compared to the big legacy automakers.

Sorry, there's just no way to flip the script here. If someone is going to make a bold claim, then be accurate. Dollars spent is dollars spent. The qualifer of per car sold wasn't included, so the statement is factually wrong.

 

[804son]

So is this about the EV6 GT being a "better car" or Elon tweeting empty words yet again? The latter happens a lot, and the former is and will always be a highly subjective statement.

Two things can be true at the same time..... I didn't say the EV6 GT is a "Better Car", I have said it's a competitive offering and that the Model Y is long overdue for the promised Track Mode. I have also said that Tesla should keep an eye on their competition. There are many new offerings coming to the BEV market, and as an owner of two Teslas (which I love) I'm happy to see more vehicles come to market that have a competitive chance.

 

[nate704]

Not when the statement was made that Tesla spends "much more on R&D than any other legacy makers..." it's not. And for what it's worth, it's not a percentage of income. Tesla spends more R&D money per car sold than other auto manufacturers. The problem is, Tesla doesn't sell many cars compared to the big legacy automakers.

Sorry, there's just no way to flip the script here. If someone is going to make a bold claim, then be accurate. Dollars spent is dollars spent. The qualifer of per car sold wasn't included, so the statement is factually wrong.

You sell 10 million cars a year and spend 2 million dollars for the R&D - 20% of their sales
VS.
You sell 1 million cars a year and spend 1 million dollars for the R&D - 100% of their sales

Who spend more on the R&D?

If you take that question literally, yes, 2 million dollar is more, BUT

Are we talking about the total amount spend here? We are talking about who spend more money for their R&D meaning who prioritize their focus more on the R&D, which will be Tesla.

 

[Fourdoor]

Tesla Leads the Way on R&D Spending

LONDON—Unlike other automakers, Tesla shuns advertising and pours money into research and development efforts.

www.assemblymag.com

Tesla spends the most R&D and least in advertising per car sold

A new report shows that Tesla is spending more in research and development (R&D) per car than any other automaker...

electrek.co

Tesla Research and Development Expenses 2010-2023 | TSLA

Tesla annual/quarterly research and development expenses history and growth rate from 2010 to 2023. Research and development expenses can be defined as an expense arising from studies and product development processes. <ul style='margin-top:10px;'> <li>Tesla research and...

www.macrotrends.net

So a company that sells 10.5 million cars (Toyota) spends less on research and development per car than a company the sells a million cars... look at how shocked I am!

Tesla doesn't advertise or have any press cars for the media to use, or a department to answer questions posed by the Media. Instead people interested in reviewing a Tesla have to borrow or rent one, and Elon tweets stuff personally and gets in trouble with the FTC.

Keith

 

[Fourdoor]

speed thrills but kills-average speed limit on the road is 35mph-why one need a track mode-instead invest that damn xtra money if you have.

Well, why don't you use speed limit mode on your car set to 40 mph? That would be oh so much safer and more efficient wouldn't it?

Also, most cars on the road only have the driver in them, why do you need all those other seats? Tesla should only make single seat vehicles with a 40 mph max speed from now on!

Keith

 

[White Shadow]

You sell 10 million cars a year and spend 2 million dollars for the R&D - 20% of their sales
VS.
You sell 1 million cars a year and spend 1 million dollars for the R&D - 100% of their sales

Who spend more on the R&D?

If you take that question literally, yes, 2 million dollar is more, BUT

Are we talking about the total amount spend here? We are talking about who spend more money for their R&D meaning who prioritize their focus more on the R&D, which will be Tesla.

I quoted the statement that was made. I spend $2 million on R&D and you spend $1 million on R&D. Who spends more on R&D? That's the question. There are no qualifiers.

 

[z335is]

Funniest part of this thread are the people arguing that the MYP doesn't need to be fast or have better performance because it will be "dangerous". You realize how stupid that sounds when we are literally talking about the Performance variant of the car, right?

Definitely some odd ducks on this forum. Peace and love though, peace and love

 

[Fourdoor]

My statistics and econ professors are both turning in their graves right now.

As a % of income is how you'd compare R&D budgets between companies, there are other ways to try and normalize the data but a raw number is meaningless.

Before Tesla sold a single car their R&D was virtually 100% of their budget, R&D percentage is way down from that, why have they given up on R&D?

Oh, wait... Any startup will have a larger R&D ratio than an established company.

I have no doubt that your econ professor is turning over in his grave...

Keith

 

[White Shadow]

.... We are talking about who spend more money for their R&D meaning who prioritize their focus more on the R&D, which will be Tesla.

Prioritize their focus? Oh boy...so easy.

So tell me more about the priorities of, lets say, VW. Knowing that they spent $16,500,000,000 on R&D in 2020, which was down compared to the prior year due to the pandemic. I'm not a VW insider, nor do I pretend to be, but I'd guess that R&D is a pretty major focus for VW and certainly a huge priority.

 

[blinkme323]

This is actually a great example of what happens when a company gets fat. Innovation slows, customer wants/needs go unfulfilled, etc.

It's not just a Tesla thing, same thing happened to Ford, GM and Chrysler and the only thing that shook them out of it was them being on the precipice of death. The Japanese and Germans have managed to stave it off to a degree but it has crept in there as well.

 

[Jagular]

Just curious. How many MYP owners actually want to track their MYPs? I mean, you could track your MYP, or any reasonably safe car, on any given Saturday (also depends on what you mean by "tracking"). You don't need track mode to do it. I used to track my cars (by track, I mean an actual race track, setup for racing) and while I had a great time, I couldn't believe how expensive it was, especially tires (and given the weight of the MYP you will quickly go through very expensive tires). But what's the percentage of MYP owners who want Track Mode to actually track their cars? Three percent (maybe)? As a product manager, if I'm prioritizing features, and the possible upside of offering a Track Mode nets the company 3% more buyers of the product - AND I don't have a demand problem for my product where 3% makes a difference - I can tell you as a product manager I'd stack rank Track Mode towards the bottom of the backlog...

 

[blinkme323]

Just curious. How many MYP owners actually want to track their MYPs? I mean, you could track your MYP, or any reasonably safe car, on any given Saturday (also depends on what you mean by "tracking"). You don't need track mode to do it. I used to track my cars (by track, I mean an actual race track, setup for racing) and while I had a great time, I couldn't believe how expensive it was, especially tires (and given the weight of the MYP you will quickly go through very expensive tires). But what's the percentage of MYP owners who want Track Mode to actually track their cars? Three percent (maybe)? As a product manager, if I'm prioritizing features, and the possible upside of offering a Track Mode nets the company 3% more buyers of the product - AND I don't have a demand problem for my product where 3% makes a difference - I can tell you as a product manager I'd stack rank Track Mode towards the bottom of the backlog...

I've taken mine to the track several times. And while your statements are probably correct, then why put track mode on any car then? Furthermore, why tell MYP owners that track mode is coming?

To boil it down - if there wasn't already a precedent AND if they hadn't already promised it, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[White Shadow]

Honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would want to track a Tesla at all. The cars are heavy. That makes them brutal on tires & brakes compared to lighter cars. The motors aren't really as good as LSD for coming out of turns on accelation. But if I really wanted to track a Tesla, it would for sure by the M3 over the MY.

 

[MountainPass]

Honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would want to track a Tesla at all. The cars are heavy. That makes them brutal on tires & brakes compared to lighter cars. The motors aren't really as good as LSD for coming out of turns on accelation. But if I really wanted to track a Tesla, it would for sure by the M3 over the MY.

Because it is a very balanced and capable chassis that puts a smile on our faces every time we turn a lap!