"Even if you buy no options at all, this will still be an amazing car!"

[kzod]

There are plenty of cars out there like that for that price.

Wow, you must be a hole lot smarter than the rest of us, because I can't think of one car that meets ALL of those criteria.

 

[melindav]

What ?

33.7 X .08 = 2.696 (~ $2.70)

 

[Dan Detweiler]

There are plenty of cars out there like that for that price.

Then by all means, go buy one.

Dan

 

[SageBrush]

33.7 X .08 = 2.696 (~ $2.70)

For a gallon of electricity, no less

 

[Garlan Garner]

Wow, you must be a hole lot smarter than the rest of us, because I can't think of one car that meets ALL of those criteria.

maybe.....

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Its amazing what fandom does to people. I'm glad I can think objectively and not just drool all over Tesla all of the time.

I'm not promoting ICE cars. Have you read the thread?

Never said you were. Let's not get paranoid now. You seem more than a little trollish.

Dan

 

[Garlan Garner]

Never said you were. Let's not get paranoid now. You seem more than a little trollish.

Dan

really? really? Drop the mic.

 

[Booga]

I think those are missing the 100mpg part of the requirements list.

Why is that a requirement though? Not for being efficient with money. If it was purely a financial consideration, something simpler like a Prius would probably win.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Why is that a requirement though? Not for being efficient with money. If it was purely a financial consideration, something simpler like a Prius would probably win.

I wondered the same thing.

 

[JeffK]

Why is that a requirement though? Not for being efficient with money. If it was purely a financial consideration, something simpler like a Prius would probably win.

Because that's what's listed here #5

 

[Garlan Garner]

Because that's what's listed here #5

Although I understand the list there are things that are missing from the list.

Include EVERTYTHING and then ask the question.

What about the $7K charge every X number of years to replace the battery?
What about the increased up front insurance costs?
What about the drastic reduction in range?
What about many other things.......

I'm not downing Tesla or EV's - as I'm willing to pay these extra costs ( I waited out in the rain to reserve ) to be green and contribute to the environment that we all live in.

 

[JeffK]

Although I understand the list there are things that are missing from the list.

Include EVERTYTHING and then ask the question.

What about the $7K charge every X number of years to replace the battery?
What about the increased up front insurance costs?
What about the drastic reduction in range?
What about many other things.......

I'm not downing Tesla or EV's - as I'm willing to pay these extra costs ( I waited out in the rain to reserve ) to be green and contribute to the environment that we all live in.

• Every X years might be 20 years at this point. It's at minimum > 8 because of the warranty.
• We don't know how insurance is going to look just yet. With greater safety features, might be cheaper.
• I'd use longer range maybe four times a year, but I agree, it is a reduction. Even then, one could argue it might be safe to stop and take a small break after that much driving anyway. With self driving and automatic superchargers your range is potentially unlimited (if you're within the range of the network). In the future, if you didn't have to use the bathroom or eat, then you could travel across the country without ever exiting the car.

For those four or five times a year where I do travel, I'm going to opt for a bigger battery myself, but this puts me outside the $35k range.

 

[3Victoria]

GG knows all these arguments. GG, why are you making them (again)? The model 3 will beat similarly priced ICE cars on many items. There is no "best" as much of that is subjective. It is a waste of all our time to rehash this again.

 

[Saghost]

10 Best Luxury Cars Under $35,000 - Kelley Blue Book

I actually looked at the first two cars in your link - neither of which met the requirements you said they all did, even without the 100 mpg part.

 

[ecarfan]

• Dual motor

• AWD

Those are the same thing. You buy the Dual Motor option and that means the car is AWD (All Wheel Drive).

What about the $7K charge every X number of years to replace the battery?

Please quote a reliable source showing that Tesla drivetrain batteries must be changed "every X number of years". Right, there is no such source.

The data so far on high mileage Model S cars (Plug-In America owner survey data) shows after about 100K miles average range loss is around 5%. That is trivial. There is no need to replace the drivetrain battery at that point. And range loss correlates to mileage, not to age of the battery. We also know that Tesla drivetrain batteries degrade most rapidly when they are new and then the degradation is very gradual. It is reasonable to extrapolate out to 200K miles and anticipate less than 10% range loss, meaning an S 85 will still have a greater than 200 mile real world range at that point. So the cars will continue to be very usable for many years on their original battery.

And I have no idea where you got your "$7K" cost for a battery. It appears to me that you just make stuff up without even qualifying it by saying that is your opinion. Instead you state it as fact.

The fact is that the Model 3 without options will indeed be "an amazing car" because even by the end of 2017 it will have no direct competitors. It will be in a class by itself. The Bolt is not in the same class in terms of capacity, long distance travel capability, or carrying capacity, to say nothing of completely failing in aesthetics (that is my personal opinion, by the way).

 

[Garlan Garner]

• Every X years might be 20 years at this point. It's at minimum > 8 because of the warranty.
• We don't know how insurance is going to look just yet. With greater safety features, might be cheaper.
• I'd use longer range maybe four times a year, but I agree, it is a reduction. Even then, one could argue it might be safe to stop and take a small break after that much driving anyway. With self driving and automatic superchargers your range is potentially unlimited (if you're within the range of the network). In the future, if you didn't have to use the bathroom or eat, then you could travel across the country without ever exiting the car.

For those four or five times a year where I do travel, I'm going to opt for a bigger battery myself, but this puts me outside the $35k range.

Well yes...that would indeed take you outside of the $35K range, but it wouldn't take ICE outside of the $35K range. That's my point.

Again. I wouldn't care if the M3 was 1.5 times the cost of a comparable ICE car . I'm getting it anyway. Not because of Tesla or Elon. Its just what I want.

I'm not trying to make ICE cars look better than Teslas. I'm just calling it like I see it - from a non-fanboy standpoint.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I actually looked at the first two cars in your link - neither of which met the requirements you said they all did, even without the 100 mpg part.

I could care less about the 100mpg option.

delete my response then.

 

[SageBrush]

Please quote a reliable source showing that Tesla drivetrain batteries must be changed "every X number of years". Right, there is no such source.

The data so far on high mileage Model S cars (Plug-In America owner survey data) shows after about 100K miles average range loss is around 5%. That is trivial. There is no need to replace the drivetrain battery at that point. And range loss correlates to mileage, not to age of the battery. We also know that Tesla drivetrain batteries degrade most rapidly when they are new and then the degradation is very gradual. It is reasonable to extrapolate out to 200K miles and anticipate less than 10% range loss, meaning an S 85 will still have a greater than 200 mile real world range at that point. So the cars will continue to be very usable for many years on their original battery.

And I have no idea where you got your "$7K" cost for a battery. It appears to me that you just make stuff up without even qualifying it by saying that is your opinion. Instead you state it as fact.

Whom are you quoting and responding to ? Not me.

 

[shrspeedblade]

Looked over your list, but as stated earlier there are significant compromises:

-many are barely adequate for 4+luggage, the 2 series drives the best but is really a 2+2. A frunk is a wonderful thing.
-the smaller ones ideally only get mid 30s highway, the larger more like mid 20s mpg
-few meet the acceleration parameter
-many are FWD mini SUVs, I mean they drive good for what they are but c'mon!
-the good news is we live in a golden age of auto design, there is not a bad car on that list, but neither is there one that would easily part me from my coin which makes it all the more impressive that Tesla (hopefully!) delivers a superior product without the compromises I've listed. Anybody can shoot fish in a barrel.

Think of it this way, the Model S exceeded consumer reports rating scale and the Model 3 while not as luxurious will be building from that point at half the price. If you don't agree why not go get your entry level luxury mini SUV?

Garlan, bravo on waiting in line (I didn't show up as early as you did!) and your reservation. I think you were wise to do so and will be getting an even better car than you anticipate. If your motivation was more the environmental benefits then bravo X2!

No fanboyism here (ok, maybe a little!), I'm just someone who would have already bought something on your list or similar if the Model 3 didn't come along and teach me 2 years of patience!

 

[tashtibet]

more options you chose you will get or Tesla will build/deliver sooner than no option order.