Everything wrong with V11 update / user interface.

[Boza]

Seat warmers are NEVER critical, for ANY reason, again, milliseconds are irrelevant.

It seems you are not married

You have to actually hit the < or > buttons to get the short menu...

Don’t have those.

 

[TexasTezla]

It seems you are not married

Don’t have those.

I'm married but my wife can control her own seat heating very easily.

 

[TexasTezla]

It seems you are not married

Don’t have those.

You do have them...but the chevrons are facing up and down rather than left and right on the M3...you are likely hitting the down arrow rather than swiping up...hence the short screen

 

[Boza]

Will test it tomorrow - apparently, it is undocumented feature.

In any case, I was able to complete all those actions faster and more efficiently (w/o turning the HVAC) in V10. Are you disputing that?

 

[Ferala]

Also, there is a huge difference between automotive and aerospace, in terms of regulation. V11 simply cannot happen on a plane. They have to prove that it is beneficial and safe before they deploy it on a plane and, if it is substantially different, they must provide training. FAA must certify the plane or system before it goes out. It is prevention. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer.
With automotive you can do pretty much anything. There are rules you have to follow but there is no certification in the FAA sense. It is on you and if you brake the rules then NHTSA will go after you. It is detection. The burden of proof is on the regulator.
Let’s take the defogger, for example. It is an important system and, in the aircraft scenario, Tesla has to prove that hiding the button is advantageous from functionality perspective before they receive the OK from the regulator. In the cars example, the regulator has to prove that hiding the button causes danger. There is always the argument that you can stop and adjust the defogger (like I did). It is a ridiculous proposition but it is an argument against the claim that it is inherently dangerous. (Burden of proof in the legal system is different than the one used in everyday life) The presumption is that you, as a driver, remained in control all the time - you can always stop. Vs. brakes, for example, where your ability to control the car is completely removed.
Also, the class action process is so complicated and long that most people would simply sell the car (that is what I would do).
So, no, the likelihood of a class action because of V11 is very, very low.

I do not agree with the "you can always stop" part. When you are on a highway (with no safety lane) and your window fogs up you have no place to stop. Even breaking would be dangerous for the person behind you. What you want is to find the button for defogging as quickly as possible.

 

[Boza]

In practice, you are absolutely correct. I had exactly the same experience a few days ago when driving on the highway, in a construction zone, no shoulder, narrow lanes.
Unfortunately, legally, you have options. That is why our best hope is the regulator.

 

[TexasTezla]

Will test it tomorrow - apparently, it is undocumented feature.

In any case, I was able to complete all those actions faster and more efficiently (w/o turning the HVAC) in V10. Are you disputing that?

Disputing it? Nope, never have. Merely putting down your suggestion that v11 is dangerous! I'd bet I can control anything you did in v10 just as fast in v11 without any more 'danger' ! Muscle memory can easily be retaught.

As for undocumented feature...gotta love Easter Eggs!

 

[TexasTezla]

I do not agree with the "you can always stop" part. When you are on a highway (with no safety lane) and your window fogs up you have no place to stop. Even breaking would be dangerous for the person behind you. What you want is to find the button for defogging as quickly as possible.

So your window fogs up in milliseconds? Seems unlikely. I can find the defog button in a second and most of that without removing eyes from the road! These arguments are all about preference and this trying to claim v11 is dangerous is ridiculous!

 

[Lexdysic]

Disputing it? Nope, never have. Merely putting down your suggestion that v11 is dangerous! I'd bet I can control anything you did in v10 just as fast in v11 without any more 'danger' ! Muscle memory can easily be retaught.

While it may not be dangerous for YOU, it very well could be dangerous for others. "Dangerous" is a collective condition.

 

[TexasTezla]

While it may not be dangerous for YOU, it very well could be dangerous for others. "Dangerous" is a collective condition.

Well, it certainly could be 'dangerous' for those that drive too fast and drive too close to other cars, as it would be in v10! Apart from that, nope, v11 is no more dangerous than v10, no more dangerous at all. Please explain exactly how v11 could be 'dangerous' over v10? I have yet to hear any evidence, just preference!

 

[Boza]

@TexasTezla just to make clear: For you swipe-tap-tap is as fast as just tap?

 

[Boza]

You do have them...but the chevrons are facing up and down rather than left and right on the M3...you are likely hitting the down arrow rather than swiping up...hence the short screen

Thanks for pointing out another design flaw. In order to bring up the mini HVAC menu I have to change the temperature. Why is that beneficial?

 

[TexasTezla]

just to make clear: For you swipe-tap-tap is as fast as just tap?

Is this what your argument has boiled down to? Swipe tap tap milliseconds? LOL. My argument is that v11 is no more dangerous than v10...period!

Thanks for pointing out another design flaw. In order to bring up the mini HVAC menu I have to change the temperature. Why is that beneficial?

Why do you need the mini screen for defogger or seat heater? You can access all you need in the main screen after a swipe up...the mini screen only pops up if you are changing temperature so you can use the slider if you prefer (it also then gives you more options if you want to use them). Why is this a design flaw?

 

[TexasTezla]

@TexasTezla just to make clear: For you swipe-tap-tap is as fast as just tap?

I think the question should be "what difference does it make?" to access controls that are not needed in milliseconds because the output of the action does not happen in milliseconds (ie defogger is not instant defog!). Wipers and lights action occur instantly for a reason (press stalk or push stalk) as they are needed immediately in some instances. Defogger is not a life and death matter in a couple of seconds.

Your personal preference for having every button on screen all the time is not my preference. I respect your preference but I will do not agree with your conclusion it is now more 'dangerous'. You can talk about milliseconds all you like but if that is your argument for seat heaters and defoggers then it is without merit.

 

[Lexdysic]

Please explain exactly how v11 could be 'dangerous' over v10? I have yet to hear any evidence, just preference!

Just as many people don't use as many exclamation points as you, many also may not have your apparent cat-like reflexes to avoid an accident after being distracted by trying to defog the windshield. (or any other number of tasks that are now slightly more complicated) That is not preference.

My point is you may be an excellent driver- perhaps even the best, among us all. But there are others who need their eyes on the road at all times and one small distraction could make the difference between avoiding an accident or a fatal collision. Factor in millions of Tesla drivers, and time, and certainly there will be at least one accident that occurs due to distraction related to this update.

By definition, that makes it more "dangerous" than v10.

 

[TexasTezla]

Just as many people don't use as many exclamation points as you, many also may not have your apparent cat-like reflexes to avoid an accident after being distracted by trying to defog the windshield. (or any other number of tasks that are now slightly more complicated) That is not preference.

My point is you may be an excellent driver- perhaps even the best, among us all. But there are others who need their eyes on the road at all times and one small distraction could make the difference between avoiding an accident or a fatal collision. Factor in millions of Tesla drivers, and time, and certainly there will be at least one accident that occurs due to distraction related to this update.

By definition, that makes it more "dangerous" than v10.

There is no more distraction using the defogger or seat heaters, as the additional action (ie a swipe or a press of a non moving button) does not require removing eyes from the road. By that definition, it is the same as v10 in terms of "danger".

And people whose argument is based on "danger" seemingly appear to think they need something to back up their personal dislike for the changes. It's OK to just say you don't like it because your favorite button has gone away.

Oh...and based on your user name...I was just trying to help...

https://www.dyslexiaconnect.com/dyslexia-connect...

A good dyslexia tutor helps a student develop their reading fluency over time, and one of the ways that they do this is through emphasis on punctuation.

 

[Boza]

I think the question should be "what difference does it make?" to access controls that are not needed in milliseconds because the output of the action does not happen in milliseconds (ie defogger is not instant defog!). Wipers and lights action occur instantly for a reason (press stalk or push stalk) as they are needed immediately in some instances. Defogger is not a life and death matter in a couple of seconds.

Your personal preference for having every button on screen all the time is not my preference. I respect your preference but I will do not agree with your conclusion it is now more 'dangerous'. You can talk about milliseconds all you like but if that is your argument for seat heaters and defoggers then it is without merit.

If the last 34 pages that did not make it clear, here is the argument:

1. Swipe-tap-tap (V11) takes longer than tap (V10)
2. Longer lack of attention to the road increases the chance of accident
3. Increased chance of accident leads to something to be classified as “more dangerous”

You can talk about fast reflexes, muscle training, voice commands, whether the defogger is critical, better aesthetics, etc. - it is your opinion, preference, etc. The above is objective truth.

 

[TexasTezla]

If the last 34 pages that did not make it clear, here is the argument:

1. Swipe-tap-tap (V11) takes longer than tap (V10)
2. Longer lack of attention to the road increases the chance of accident
3. Increased chance of accident leads to something to be classified as “more dangerous”

You can talk about fast reflexes, muscle training, voice commands, whether the defogger is critical, better aesthetics, etc. - it is your opinion, preference, etc. The above is objective truth.

And has been repeated many times, you only face more danger the longer you take your eyes of the road...in v11 you don't need to take your eyes off the road to swipe up on the screen...hence no more danger.

 

[Ferala]

Why do people still argue with an idiot. I respect the effort, but it has no merit.

(sometimes, even if you are a fanboy, it is okay to say: I wish they had done a better job, but unfortunately they made a mistake)
(don't you think I want to be happy, after spending 70k on a car, about that said car?)

 

[Boza]

in v11 you don't need to take your eyes off the road to swipe up on the screen...

Actually, I am a different human being and I do need to look at the screen when I swipe and tap. I doubt that I am the only one with such “deficiency”…

Leaving aside the wisdom of swiping vs taping in a moving car.