Everything wrong with V11 update / user interface.

[TexasTezla]

I didn’t mention either of those things lol. I dislike the fact any control in a car moves effectively overnight. I’d be the same if any other car manufacturers broke in my car overnight and swapped the indicator stalk with the wipers as a crude example lol.
His drive towards making cars driverless community Xboxes with the added benefit of it getting you from A to B is not something I want. As you’ve lived in UK you should know, we like independence & anywhere outside London public transport sucks hairy ball sacks

Well if you dislike the fact ANY control moves you are going to have a tough time in the screen age. Expect that in many many more brands real soon!

 

[TexasTezla]

In general, software downgrades are very, very difficult in complex systems like cars. It is certainly possible to factor in that option in the development process but it will slow it down so much that everyone prefers to “fall forward” and forget about downgrading.

Also, we are focused on the UI but there are many other things in the background that they fixed (I hope). That is why “skinning” the interface is such a good practice. Given that we are talking about deadly equipment such move would be somewhat complicated to Tesla but, hey, Sonic The Hedgehog is more interesting.

The equipment isn't deadly, the driver is...

 

[TexasTezla]

I am not the right customer for them. Elon can dream or have nightmares - I will not participate. Will keep the car for now, until someone more aligned with my philosophy comes up with an alternative.

So if you keep your vehicle then in actual fact your are participating, for which Elon thanks you!

 

[linux-works]

In general, software downgrades are very, very difficult in complex systems like cars. It is certainly possible to factor in that option in the development process but it will slow it down so much that everyone prefers to “fall forward” and forget about downgrading.

it depends, though; in fact, there is no such thing as upgrade or downgrade - its just a firmware flash and optional data-convert. that's the rub, if you 'upgraded' and some structures changed (new fields added or changed) then the upgrade process always has to clear or convert from old to new. but the other path is almost never supported or tested. still, a 'restore to factory defaults' WOULD 100% work and many of us would be willing to clear our car for the ability to go back.

the only times I'm aware of, that this isn't technically possible is when some other vendor forces an upgrade on YOU and THEY dont support a backwards path. I had that happen to me and our vendor only would let us flash to higher version numbers, for whatever reason, and the rest of our system depended on the api that this vendor gives us. so, once that device on the board was flashed, we could not go back.

that said, it happens very very rarely and its not a valid excuse to never let users go back.

flashing a car is flashing a car. if you want version tree foo.1.2.3.4 then you get all the versions of the ecu's that 'work' with that and reflash everything. just as if its a new version from the dependancy tree.

its just that vendors dont want you to know how easy it is, from a tech POV. they want you to think its hard so they can get out of DOING THIS.

 

[hatch]

Actually, I am thankful to the V11 because it caused my to dig deeper and understand the Tesla philosophy.

Yes.. it's not just about the interface change. It sounds like a lot of people are seeing more of what the company is all about. Another plus for v11...

 

[Xdama]

Well if you dislike the fact ANY control moves you are going to have a tough time in the screen age. Expect that in many many more brands real soon!

There’s only Tesla that have gone full screen, no hard controls, so far. By the time 2030 arrives (no new non hybrid ICE sales in UK) I’ll just buy a 10yr old ICE to be a rebel.

 

[sleepydoc]

Yes.. it's not just about the interface change. It sounds like a lot of people are seeing more of what the company is all about. Another plus for v11...

I'm in the same camp. I'll keep my MY for now because that's the smartest move to make but unless things change I can't say that I'll be in the market for another one when the time comes.

The other problem for Tesla is that I and people like me are no longer a source of advertisement for them. Tesla owners have historically been huge proponents but things like this burn through good will and change that.

 

[_Redshift_]

Obviously the seat can sense how well you are dressed for the conditions, and adjust the temperature accordingly.

There might be a new hidden sensor that measures the temperature of your butt.

 

[_Redshift_]

Why do people still argue with an idiot. I respect the effort, but it has no merit.

(sometimes, even if you are a fanboy, it is okay to say: I wish they had done a better job, but unfortunately they made a mistake)
(don't you think I want to be happy, after spending 70k on a car, about that said car?)

I have put TexasTezla on ignore. He is completely without logic or reason.

 

[Boza]

There’s only Tesla that have gone full screen, no hard controls, so far. By the time 2030 arrives (no new non hybrid ICE sales in UK) I’ll just buy a 10yr old ICE to be a rebel.

Don’t feed the troll

 

[Boza]

it depends, though; in fact, there is no such thing as upgrade or downgrade - its just a firmware flash and optional data-convert. that's the rub, if you 'upgraded' and some structures changed (new fields added or changed) then the upgrade process always has to clear or convert from old to new. but the other path is almost never supported or tested. still, a 'restore to factory defaults' WOULD 100% work and many of us would be willing to clear our car for the ability to go back.

the only times I'm aware of, that this isn't technically possible is when some other vendor forces an upgrade on YOU and THEY dont support a backwards path. I had that happen to me and our vendor only would let us flash to higher version numbers, for whatever reason, and the rest of our system depended on the api that this vendor gives us. so, once that device on the board was flashed, we could not go back.

that said, it happens very very rarely and its not a valid excuse to never let users go back.

flashing a car is flashing a car. if you want version tree foo.1.2.3.4 then you get all the versions of the ecu's that 'work' with that and reflash everything. just as if its a new version from the dependancy tree.

its just that vendors dont want you to know how easy it is, from a tech POV. they want you to think its hard so they can get out of DOING THIS.

Yes, if you are willing to kill all data and go back to “factory reset” - then yes, you can easily roll back. So long as the firmware you are rolling back to can work with components that were introduced after that firmware was released (if any).

In any case, they should allow skinning

 

[TexasTezla]

Don’t feed the troll

So I am a troll because I have shown your supposed 'big issues with v11' to be non issues? Er, ok! LOL

 

[TexasTezla]

There’s only Tesla that have gone full screen, no hard controls, so far. By the time 2030 arrives (no new non hybrid ICE sales in UK) I’ll just buy a 10yr old ICE to be a rebel.

In UK I doubt you will be allowed to drive an ICE in 10 years unless you pay a huge tax to HMRC...good luck with that plan!

 

[Xdama]

In UK I doubt you will be allowed to drive an ICE in 10 years unless you pay a huge tax to HMRC...good luck with that plan!

The plan is no new car sales ICE from 2030, ergo they will be sold up until that date and used afterwards for a good few years. Just because EV have good tax breaks on them currently it doesn’t mean they will remain forever. The UK gov is already projecting loss of £5bill per year from fossil fuel sales ….. you really think they aren’t going to recoup that from EV’s lol.
As the insurance on my Tesla is double what I paid for a 3litre diesel BMW & the tax on that BMW was less than that increase only the fuel is different .
I get it, you like driving an ipad with wheels attached, fair play. I bought a car with an ipad in it, Tesla just isn’t for me. I don’t see any other manufacturers going wholesale touch pads, VW tried going touchpad HVAC controls and it’s been slated in every car magazine over here. Different courses, different horses, it’s why for the past 60yrs, you over the pond have driven massive gas gussling monsters whilst everywhere else has had smaller more fuel efficient, faster, manoeuvrable cars. Yours have been ok in a straight line but for UK roads you may as well buy an oil tanker with some wheels on it, it still won’t fit down most of our roads

 

[sleepydoc]

Alright - I had a beautiful example of why the V11 interface is so bad this morning.

I was driving home from work and it was 15º F (-9ºC) and I was trying to adjust the climate controls. I put the seat heat on auto before I left but lo and behold I needed to turn it off after a few minutes because it was too hot. Between the winter roads in MN and the crappy suspension in the MY I kept missing the button to turn off the seat heater and it probably took me 10-15 seconds to turn it off. Then I needed to turn on the defroster and adjust the temp and the same thing happened.

Fortunately, I had the car on autopilot and it was 7:30 on a Sunday morning so I could manage, but it's a perfect example of how the poor interface takes more time to use and can distract you from driving.

 

[TexasTezla]

The plan is no new car sales ICE from 2030, ergo they will be sold up until that date and used afterwards for a good few years. Just because EV have good tax breaks on them currently it doesn’t mean they will remain forever. The UK gov is already projecting loss of £5bill per year from fossil fuel sales ….. you really think they aren’t going to recoup that from EV’s lol.
As the insurance on my Tesla is double what I paid for a 3litre diesel BMW & the tax on that BMW was less than that increase only the fuel is different .
I get it, you like driving an ipad with wheels attached, fair play. I bought a car with an ipad in it, Tesla just isn’t for me. I don’t see any other manufacturers going wholesale touch pads, VW tried going touchpad HVAC controls and it’s been slated in every car magazine over here. Different courses, different horses, it’s why for the past 60yrs, you over the pond have driven massive gas gussling monsters whilst everywhere else has had smaller more fuel efficient, faster, manoeuvrable cars. Yours have been ok in a straight line but for UK roads you may as well buy an oil tanker with some wheels on it, it still won’t fit down most of our roads

Perhaps I wasn't clear...there will be a huge tax for people who insist on driving gas cars ON TOP of any other tax that EV users will also share. It won't be a replacement, but an 'additional' tax. I can almost guarantee that will be the case.

As for iPad with wheels, you are being disingenuous. The car I drive is every bit as much a car as say a VW GTI or BMW M3...only better for the environment, better for future generations and cheaper for me to run. Importantly, it is just as much fun to drive without annoying everyone with rasping overly loud engine sounds and noxious gases.

I also get that Teslas are not for you. It seems you made a choice without sufficient research. Of course, that level of research isn't required to move from a Ford to a BMW as most other brands are homogenous in terms of their controls being switches and dials...that WILL change I can almost guarantee it, as it saves lots of money for car manufacturers to throw in a screen and do away with buttons and switches etc. As the older generation dies out and the younger generation comes in, dependence on the 'traditional' car controls will fade. Tesla are just accelerating this demise.

As for a loss of £5b tax revenue from fossil fuel burning...that's peanuts compared to the trillions that would be needed to combat the issues associated with burning fossil fuels.

 

[TexasTezla]

Alright - I had a beautiful example of why the V11 interface is so bad this morning.

I was driving home from work and it was 15º F (-9ºC) and I was trying to adjust the climate controls. I put the seat heat on auto before I left but lo and behold I needed to turn it off after a few minutes because it was too hot. Between the winter roads in MN and the crappy suspension in the MY I kept missing the button to turn off the seat heater and it probably took me 10-15 seconds to turn it off. Then I needed to turn on the defroster and adjust the temp and the same thing happened.

Fortunately, I had the car on autopilot and it was 7:30 on a Sunday morning so I could manage, but it's a perfect example of how the poor interface takes more time to use and can distract you from driving.

Still trying to come up with scenarios? LOL. As has been said before, swipe up (no need to look), rest hand on top of screen (again no need to look) and use thumb to press the buttons (look for button, easy)...it could not be easier and in fact is safer, as you don't have to look down at the bottom of the screen and lose your peripheral vision of the road as you did in v10. Of course, none of this fits your agenda but the fact it is easier is still true. Interesting to note you are happy to drive on AP in wintery conditions in a car with, in your words, crappy suspension...(your upvote friends would be shaking their heads at this dangerous way to drive. LOL)

 

[Merrill]

Ok, how about a screen shot of V11 on a Model X.

 

[WattsappMTL]

Yes, you are right, this thread has done its course. The safety complaints about v11 have been pitiful at best. Not one of you can show v11 is any more dangerous to use than v10, not one! I may be stubborn about my appreciation for v11, but thankfully I am capable of learning new things. To the people who say "I hate my car now" I can only say, THANK YOU for the laughs.

Now please put me on ignore as I don't think your blood pressures can handle free minded people that refuse to join you in the sheep pen

I'll give you one example how V11 is truly less safe than V10. It was always bad that the climate screen extended across the driving display, but now climate can (and will) be opened by the passenger- intentionally because it's the easiest way to access seat heater controls, and unintentionally because it will open whenever they tap the temperature display that is now closer to them. We have to allow for the reality that the passenger may not be familiar with nuances of Tesla controls, so they'll play around until something responds. If this happens while the driver is executing a turn and checking the blind spot camera, it will be blocked at a critical time.

In my view, no passenger action should interfere with the driver's operation of the vehicle. To this end, I would argue that the passenger temp control should be deactivated when temp controls are synced - only driver should be responsible to set the temp in that configuration. In addition, tapping the passenger temp control should only open their mini-card, not the entire climate screen. They can split the temperature management if they want, after which they can adjust their own temperature.

 

[hatch]

Still trying to come up with scenarios? LOL.

Like i said, i don't have my car yet. But I'm getting flashbacks of using an Apple computer or phone. I just can't use them. I can't figure out how to operate them as efficiently. I end up taking more time to do things that are pretty much transparent to me on windows or android. After so many conversations with Apple owners, that Apple is so much easier and superior, i'm pretty much resigned to the fact that the problem is me. My brain is just wired differently i guess. Plus there are specific tasks that really ARE superior and easier on windows. Those tasks are the ones that inevitably end up being only things that I use, and they do not affect the Apple owners just because they never do that.

This is what i worry about. Now my standard answer to why i don't use Apple, is i'm just not smart enough. I think i'll be saying the same for the new UI and future versions. I'll live with it because at this time, i don't think there's a better alternative for me.

I'm not saying anyone is not smart enough here. Most Apple people don't take this attitude with me. And they mostly understand my frustration. I think it's pretty much accepted now in the windows vs Apple debate, that there's really no right answer. That different OS's work better for different people.

All the more reason for Tesla developed and sanctioned "skins". I can't believe it's that difficult, or resource (money) wasting for some of the most advanced software developers around. Shooting for wider acceptance and customer appeal surely would outweigh the negatives for them. A huge part of the frustration is that Tesla just doesn't care. It is what it is, just live with it.