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EVgo is finally installing High Power Chargers

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,106
5,708
Los Altos, CA
EVgo has been a leader in DCFC infrastructure for non-Tesla vehicles. However, they have not made a significant move into the HPC space during the whole buildout of the Electrify America network that is pretty much dedicated to HPCs. That is now starting to change. They have had "prototype" stations for testing HPCs in Fremont, CA and Baker, CA. I have finally spotted a normal site with HPCs installed.

Plugshare - Carlmont Villiage Shopping Center, Belmont, CA

693487.jpg


The site has two Delta chargers that support 100kW on CCS and CHAdeMO and two Signet chargers that support 350kW on CCS and 100kW on CHAdeMO. Before this site came online, the highest power units I had seen were the BTC slim units that were either labeled 80kW or 100kW. A few notable sites had 4 to 6 of these units installed.

EVgo Belmont.jpg

The price shown above is with the AAA NorCal promotion for membership rates without a monthly commitment.
 
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kishkaru

Member
Feb 3, 2020
131
85
The Bay, CA
Thanks for reporting this, I wasn't aware they were upgrading existing sites from 50kW to higher power levels.
The Tesla adapter is limited to 125A, so there's not much motivation to put them on these faster stations. The two nearest sites that have 50kW or 80kW stations do have Tesla connectors available.

How do you know that the Tesla connector is limited to 125A? Unfortunately, the EVgo press release doesn't mention anything about charging speed.

A popular EVgo site near me (Whole Foods Market - San Jose) has been upgraded to 200 kW CCS / 100 kW CHAdeMO / 80 kW Tesla. It used to be 100 kW CCS (shared across 2 stalls) / 50 kW CHAdeMO.
"80 kW" makes me think that the connector is limited to 200A (200A * 400V = 80 kW).

I'll go check it out sometime this weekend and see what kind of power levels I get!
 

sdoorex

Member
Feb 25, 2015
292
846
Front Range, CO
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miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,106
5,708
Los Altos, CA
Thanks for reporting this, I wasn't aware they were upgrading existing sites from 50kW to higher power levels.


How do you know that the Tesla connector is limited to 125A? Unfortunately, the EVgo press release doesn't mention anything about charging speed.

A popular EVgo site near me (Whole Foods Market - San Jose) has been upgraded to 200 kW CCS / 100 kW CHAdeMO / 80 kW Tesla. It used to be 100 kW CCS (shared across 2 stalls) / 50 kW CHAdeMO.
"80 kW" makes me think that the connector is limited to 200A (200A * 400V = 80 kW).

I'll go check it out sometime this weekend and see what kind of power levels I get!
Please do check what charge rate you get at a high power charger that has EVgo Tesla connector. As posted by @sdoorex, the EVgo solution is a repackaged Tesla CHAdeMO adapter, so it should have the same 125A limit.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no CHAdeMO connectors installed in the US that are rated above 200A. There is a very common Sumitomo CHAdeMO connector that is 200A max. That is why you see some chargers that are 125kW to 200kW CCS but only 100kW CHAdeMO. The 100kW is 500V max at 200A. This would deliver up to about 80kW on a 400V EV like a Leaf+ or Soul EV.
 
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kishkaru

Member
Feb 3, 2020
131
85
The Bay, CA
I believe you on the CHAdeMO connector. 200A * 500V = 100 kW. However, it doesn't make sense for the Tesla connector: 125A * 500V = 62.5 kW.
80 kW / 500V = 160A, which is a strange current limiting figure.

It's possible that it's simply a typo on Plugshare. On EVgo website/app, unfortunately it only lists the 100 kW for the CHAdeMO and doesn't mention a separate power figure for the Tesla connector.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,106
5,708
Los Altos, CA
I believe you on the CHAdeMO connector. 200A * 500V = 100 kW. However, it doesn't make sense for the Tesla connector: 125A * 500V = 62.5 kW.
80 kW / 500V = 160A, which is a strange current limiting figure.

It's possible that it's simply a typo on Plugshare. On EVgo website/app, unfortunately it only lists the 100 kW for the CHAdeMO and doesn't mention a separate power figure for the Tesla connector.
There is no car that will pull power from a DCFC at 500VDC. The pack determines the voltage and therefore the total power. Tesla vehicles are 96S so the peak charging voltage is about 400VDC. Some other EVs are 108S so their peak charging voltage is about 450VDC.

On a Tesla you will see 125A * 400VDC = 50kW max on CHAdeMO. Cars with 400V packs that can pull 200A on CHAdeMO will peak at 80kW.
 
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miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,106
5,708
Los Altos, CA
I actually found it refreshing that EVgo were labeling some of their chargers 80kW instead of 100kW because that is what a car would actually get if the charger were limited to 200A.
 

kishkaru

Member
Feb 3, 2020
131
85
The Bay, CA
I got a chance to check out the station in person today. Unfortunately, all 3 connector types for all 4 stations are still labeled as "50 kW (125A/500V)" on the cabinets. Looks like they haven't gotten around to changing out the labels after their recent power upgrade:

Iumene.md.jpg

Iumn5k.md.jpg


Interestingly, the Tesla connector holster is 3D-printed. Totally looks like a hack job 😅 :

IumHuM.md.jpg


I tested out the Tesla connector and got 48 kW.

IumKUD.md.jpg

IumOsA.md.jpg

IumqQ7.md.jpg

IummyF.md.jpg


Unfortunately, I was at high SoC (71%), so I'll need to come back later with a lower SoC to see if the label is correct (50kW) or app is correct (80kW), or somewhere in between.
 

mociaf9

Active Member
Oct 18, 2018
2,499
5,069
CA
Unfortunately, I was at high SoC (71%), so I'll need to come back later with a lower SoC to see if the label is correct (50kW) or app is correct (80kW), or somewhere in between.
You're going to get a lower charging rate if you plug in with a lower SOC, not a higher rate. It's not the same as using a supercharger which can put out hundreds of amps, the charging curves are totally different when charging on an amperage limited DC charger. And you just unambiguously demonstrated that it's not 80 kW for Teslas.
 

kishkaru

Member
Feb 3, 2020
131
85
The Bay, CA
You're going to get a lower charging rate if you plug in with a lower SOC, not a higher rate.
Not necessarily. On a V2 supercharger, I get around 50 kW at 80% SoC. So even at a supercharging station, the car is limited to 125A by the time you hit 80%.
So it's possible that the car is already current-limiting itself to 125A/50kW around 71% when I charged at the EVgo station, thus drawing 48 kW. Charging at

50% SoC is probably a better test, when both the pack voltage is high (~400V), and the car is not current limiting itself. Or start at 50% and watch the power input until 80% to see the charging curve before it current limits itself.
 
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cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,399
2,238
SF Bay Area, CA
The Tesla holster (black plastic piece) that was screwed on a DC FC at my local Walmart was totally broken and missing. All that was left was the 4 screws and some bits at each corner.

Fortunately, the CHAdeMO adapter box attached to the site had a metal piece underneath that was sort of a shelf. Someone put the Tesla connector in there and the CHAdeMO back in the charger's holster since the hole was large again (due to the 4 bits and screws). I should've taken a pic. I maybe can if I'm in the area again.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,106
5,708
Los Altos, CA
Another notable HPC EVgo site is the Burlingame Chula Vista Lot near SFO. It has 6 200kW chargers and is equipped with Tesla adapters. There are already complaints that the Tesla power delivered is low, even on these HPCs. As noted above, it's because the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter is limited to 125A (50kW). If people looked carefully, the EVgo labeling probably says the Tesla connector is 50kW.

Plugshare - Chula Vista Lot, Burlingame, CA

There is a similar 6 stall 200kW site across the bay in Hayward but it doesn't have the Tesla adapters.

Plugshare - Lucky's Hayward
 
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kishkaru

Member
Feb 3, 2020
131
85
The Bay, CA
I got a chance to test out that EVgo Tesla connector again today, at the same Whole Foods location. This time at a lower SoC % to test whether it was current limiting last time due to my high SoC %.

I charged from 54% to 82% SoC. At 54%, it was 46 kW delivered to the car, 41 kW to the battery.
The peak was 78-80% where it was delivering 50 kW to the car, and 50 kW to the battery.
After 80%, it started ramping down quickly, so I unplugged at 82%.

IfMWbx.md.jpg


IfM86e.md.jpg


So others here are correct: its simply the 125A/50kW Tesla CHAdeMO adapter inside that box. I reported the inaccuracy to Plugshare, and I hope they update the app to show 50 kW for the Tesla connector and not the 80 kW it shows currently.

Even if they use another type of adapter, the CHAdeMO connector itself on the cabinet is limited to 200A/80kW. So it's possible whoever was updating the stats at EVgo got confused and put 80 kW for the Tesla connector.

IfLhaa.md.jpg


EVgo still charges per minute. I charged for 30 mins and it cost me $9.00. 25.160 kWh of energy was delivered, so the cost came out to $0.36/kWh.
A small discount over Tesla's supercharging rate of $0.40/kWh peak, but certainly much more expensive than their off-peak rate of $0.20/kWh. And of course taking much longer to charge.
 

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
1,480
984
Syracuse, NY
Sure you guys are talking about the Chadamo adapter being limited etc, etc but there is no reason why EVgo has to use this "adapter" system. Just offer a Tesla plug like the other plugs and not go through an adapter.
 
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Jeff N

Active Member
Oct 31, 2011
2,289
2,956
Sure you guys are talking about the Chadamo adapter being limited etc, etc but there is no reason why EVgo has to use this "adapter" system. Just offer a Tesla plug like the other plugs and not go through an adapter.
Tesla uses a proprietary communications protocol to coordinate DC charging between the car and the charger. I’m not aware of any 3rd-party charger maker that implements native support for Tesla’s protocol and I’m not aware of Tesla publicly documenting the protocol. Today, the native charger thinks it is doing CHAdeMO and the Tesla-provided adapter circuitry hidden inside the charger dispenser cabinet translates this to Tesla’s protocol.

I suspect that some charger makers would be happy to implement native support for Tesla’s protocol and plug if Tesla gave them permission and documentation support since it would give them a competitive advantage. Tesla has proclaimed that many of their patents are freely usable by others but the communications protocol is a trade secret and not a patent. If not so sure that these companies would want to guess at reverse-engineering the Tesla protocol for a highly safety-sensitive product like a 200 kW charger.
 

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
1,480
984
Syracuse, NY
Tesla uses a proprietary communications protocol to coordinate DC charging between the car and the charger. I’m not aware of any 3rd-party charger maker that implements native support for Tesla’s protocol and I’m not aware of Tesla publicly documenting the protocol. Today, the native charger thinks it is doing CHAdeMO and the Tesla-provided adapter circuitry hidden inside the charger dispenser cabinet translates this to Tesla’s protocol.

I suspect that some charger makers would be happy to implement native support for Tesla’s protocol and plug if Tesla gave them permission and documentation support since it would give them a competitive advantage. Tesla has proclaimed that many of their patents are freely usable by others but the communications protocol is a trade secret and not a patent. If not so sure that these companies would want to guess at reverse-engineering the Tesla protocol for a highly safety-sensitive product like a 200 kW charger.
Tesla has said that they are happy to open up the Supercharger network for other vendors to use, just no one has taken their offer. For that to happen the cars has to know how to talk to the Supercharger network, so it's not top secret info. If EVGo really wanted to, they can ask Tesla how they can talk to their cars. EVGo is not making real effort on anything. Putting in 50KW chargers in this day and age is already wasting money and is only NOW starting to put in 350kW chargers.

Tesla is not going to say no when other charging networks offer native Tesla plugs cause it helps all Teslas with out Tesla having to spend money on their own chargers. I wish the Tesla plug was standard in North America, it's small and easy to handle.
 

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