Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle thread EELV (DoD) - SpaceX vs. ULA

[claytorj]

As SpaceX has now successfully launched 3 Falcon 9 v1.1, and has potentially qualified itself to bid on future EELV contracts with the Department of Defense (pending review), perhaps we can use this thread to keep together all relevant information. Here is a great article to use as a starting point:

The Space Review: EELVs era of transition

 

[claytorj]

GAO: Lack of EELV Pricing Transparency Could Hamstring Launch Negotiations | SpaceNews.com

I think ULA is going to have a lot of uncomfortable questions to answer at today's Senate Appropriations Subcommittee hearing. I bet Elon is just going to sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[HVM]

Here is stream to it.

Committee on Appropriations:

National Security Space Launch Programs

Somebody wanted Ironman type big screen hack at senate, and there was one: Senator Feinstein with the billboard of ULA costs.

 

[Discoducky]

Thanks for the link to the live blog!

 

[Mario Kadastik]

Anyone got a transcript or recording as the damn thing required flash so iPhone / iPad were out of order.

 

[claytorj]

Anyone got a transcript or recording as the damn thing required flash so iPhone / iPad were out of order.

HVM's link isn't a live link, so it should still be good whenever you find yourself in front of a flash-capable device.

Boy, they should call her "Feisty" Feinstein! I found her direct questions at the end of the hearing very enlightening, particularly when ULA's Gass more or less said 'no' to fixed cost contracts. Senator Shelby certainly seemed to be doing all he could to protect ULA Alabama jobs.

 

[GenericSpoon]

<<By ULA's definition of success, that mission was perfect.>> :biggrin: Amazing!

 

[rabar10]

Live blog documenting the hearing:
Recap: Live blog of Senate space hearing with Elon Musk - Capitol Report - MarketWatch

 

[Curt Renz]

SpaceX vs. United Launch Alliance in Congress

(mod note: threads merged, edited topic to combine keywords)

This morning SpaceX (also Tesla Motors) CEO Elon Musk testified before the US Senate Appropriation Committee’s Subcommittee on Defense. He is seeking to end the monopoly on the launches of US military satellites by the United Launch Alliance (a joint venture of Boeing and Lockheed Martin). SpaceX asks a far lower price for the launches. The committee chairman is my Senator Dick Durbin. Today I emailed him, my other senator and my house representative, asking them to grant SpaceX the right to bid for military launches. You may want to write those who represent you in Congress.

 

[Discoducky]

Patty Murray from WA State is on the committee. I'll email her. Thanks Curt!

http://www.murray.senate.gov/public/

 

[Curt Renz]

Patty Murray from WA State is on the committee. I'll email her. Thanks Curt!

http://www.murray.senate.gov/public/

Thanks for joining the chorus, Discoducky. Unfortunately Boeing is headquartered in my state of Illinois and builds planes in your state of Washington. Let's hope our senators see beyond the pork and do what is right for the entire nation. Californians in particular may want to write those who represent them in Congress. They carry a lot of weight in the House of Representatives.

 

[Norbert]

Here is stream to it.

Committee on Appropriations:

National Security Space Launch Programs

Somebody wanted Ironman type big screen hack at senate, and there was one: Senator Feinstein with the billboard of ULA costs.

Interesting discussion. Looks good for the pro-competition point of view, and for SpaceX. If so, I'd expect some contracts will go to ULA, and some to SpaceX, with a varying proportion depending on performance/cost.

 

[Discoducky]

Thanks for joining the chorus, Discoducky. Unfortunately Boeing is headquartered in my state of Illinois and builds planes in your state of Washington. Let's hope our senators see beyond the pork and do what is right for the entire nation. Californians in particular may want to write those who represent them in Congress. They carry a lot of weight in the House of Representatives.

Done and I strongly suggest others do the same, especially those from states whose Senators are representing on the board.

http://www.appropriations.senate.gov/about-members.cfm

 

[aronth5]

Interesting and I agree Senator Weinstein came prepared. I liked Elon's response to the question of fixed fee DOD contracts.
Keep the based fixed fee and allow for cost plus to accommodate DOD's unique launch changes.

 

[rabar10]

Great summary of the hearing in this article:

SpaceX and ULA go toe-to-toe over EELV contracts | NASASpaceFlight.com

Mr. Musk also wasted no time in pointing out the vast differences in costs between ULA rockets and SpaceX launch vehicles.

“To put this into perspective, had SpaceX received the award for the 36 core EELV block buy contract, we would have saved the taxpayer $11.6 billion.”

It also gives some context to the above Elon quote: “By ULA’s definition of success, that mission was perfect" -- ULA was bragging about a 'perfect' launch record, and Elon noted that there had been some issues during a couple of launches that affected satellite orbits and therefore lifetimes. ULA countered that their customer's definition of success was used to define overall mission success. So then later when ULA brought up the Falcon 9 engine-out on the CRS-1 mission, Elon countered with the above line. Cheeky, that one.

 

[rabar10]

CNBC brief coverage of the hearing:
Elon Musk seeks space competition - CNBC

 

[Discoducky]

So there was mention of 10 questions submitted by both SpaceX and ULA to each other. Anyone know where these 10 questions from each might be found? The chairman said they would be available at some point.

 

[aronth5]

So there was mention of 10 questions submitted by both SpaceX and ULA to each other. Anyone know where these 10 questions from each might be found? The chairman said they would be available at some point.

Not exactly sure but I've bookmarked this page and will be checking back to see what is available. Perhaps Elon will tweet when SpaceX's questions are posted.
http://www.appropriations.senate.gov/ht-defense.cfm?method=hearings.view&id=c79ea7af-1e67-4de7-967b-95b4a78e3e35

 

[ggies07]

Great summary of the hearing in this article:



It also gives some context to the above Elon quote: “By ULA’s definition of success, that mission was perfect" -- ULA was bragging about a 'perfect' launch record, and Elon noted that there had been some issues during a couple of launches that affected satellite orbits and therefore lifetimes. ULA countered that their customer's definition of success was used to define overall mission success. So then later when ULA brought up the Falcon 9 engine-out on the CRS-1 mission, Elon countered with the above line. Cheeky, that one.

Yeah, that was great and said it multiple times. loved it.

 

[Mario Kadastik]

Yes, but from what I could tell that didn't go over well as the senator or whoever asked the question is obviously ULA biased and took out of it that SpaceX would have considered it a success while ULA wouldn't have. And didn't Elon mix up, this was a CRS mission not Cassiope as the primary payload and the secondary failed to deliver due to NASA constraints, not due to vehicle incapability. Had he said that instead of being cheeky he might have won the exchange, but he's too much Elon and had to stick it in one more time to ULA