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EVs vs Baroque tech

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mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
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Why a silicon chip shortage has left carmakers in the slow lane | John Naughton
So we, not to mention the car manufacturers, have arrived at an interesting point. A huge industry built around the idea of propelling ourselves around via a series of controlled explosions, which, after all, is what an internal combustion engine is, needs to make a paradigm shift. VW, Ford, Mercedes, Volvo et al will need to become computer companies. A few years ago, searching for a metaphor that would illustrate the change that’s coming, I came on two new cars side by side in a French carpark. One was a Porsche 911, a glorious, beautifully engineered triumph of baroque technology. The other was a Tesla Model S. And the metaphor that came to mind? On the left, in place of the Porsche, I saw a beautifully engineered Nokia phone, which was great for making calls and sending texts and not much else; on the right, the Tesla stood in for the first iPhone, which was basically a handheld networked Unix computer that could also, at a pinch, make calls. And we know how that story ends. Nokia was a very interesting company that made great hardware. But one always had the impression that, at every critical moment in the development of one of its devices, the needs of the software, ie computing, invariably took second place. The hardware guys called the shots. Which is why the path that led the car industry to its current silicon deficit rang some sobering bells.
 
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I like your well written comment and perspective of the ICE car industry,

Something that came to my mind is this big new conglomerate of former prestigious car companies called Stellantis.
This name is not easy to remember and I try to think first to the word Atlantis as a way to remember it, which not a good sign...

If you look at the airplane industry, Boeing and Airbus don't make their engine and use Jet engines from Roll Royce...
So I wonder if the car industry is going to be separated between Coach builders (body) and Technology builders (motor, batteries, ADAS...)

And Tesla will become one of the major Technology brands to supply other car manufacturers?
 
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I like your well written comment and perspective of the ICE car industry,

Something that came to my mind is this big new conglomerate of former prestigious car companies called Stellantis.
This name is not easy to remember and I try to think first to the word Atlantis as a way to remember it, which not a good sign...

If you look at the airplane industry, Boeing and Airbus don't make their engine and use Jet engines from Roll Royce...
So I wonder if the car industry is going to be separated between Coach builders (body) and Technology builders (motor, batteries, ADAS...)

And Tesla will become one of the major Technology brands to supply other car manufacturers?
Tesla has the advantage in tech, software, and batteries. They have said they are open to selling this. However, the majors don't realize this advantage and think they can invent their own and go up against Tesla's 10 year head start.
 
Don't forget GE engines.

It's arrogant to say, screw you, I can make a better wheel than you. Better to buy or pay license until you can see if it can be done in-house, or acquired from other sources. If the purpose is to make money, ego shouldn't need in the equation.
 
Don't forget GE engines.

It's arrogant to say, screw you, I can make a better wheel than you. Better to buy or pay license until you can see if it can be done in-house, or acquired from other sources. If the purpose is to make money, ego shouldn't need in the equation.
I don't think they realize how difficult it is to create software and battery tech
 
Why a silicon chip shortage has left carmakers in the slow lane | John Naughton
One was a Porsche 911, a glorious, beautifully engineered triumph of baroque technology. The other was a Tesla Model S. And the metaphor that came to mind? On the left, in place of the Porsche, I saw a beautifully engineered Nokia phone, which was great for making calls and sending texts and not much else; on the right, the Tesla stood in for the first iPhone, which was basically a handheld networked Unix computer that could also, at a pinch, make calls.

What a 911 can do and what a Tesla cannot do is drive from southern CA to Las Vegas through 20+ mph headwinds, 100+ degree temps and multiple elevation changes without having to stop.
 
What a 911 can do and what a Tesla cannot do is drive from southern CA to Las Vegas through 20+ mph headwinds, 100+ degree temps and multiple elevation changes without having to stop.
Well, first, I don't understand why anyone would want to do that but...
Whenever there is a discussion of EVs vs ICE, someone always seems to come up with "whatabout" and some odd scenario of trudging through ten feet of snow to school uphill both ways, etc.
So, if you absolutely need to do this, you might be better off with a different car.
 
That's exactly what I'm saying. Look at how few companies actually produce certain levels of products. The research and capitalization required is incredible. Look at how many companies use Brembo or BBS to name two.
The traditional auto manufacturers have outsourced most of their "parts" and have become assemblers of parts. The only part they kept in-house was ICE engine and transmission since they considered that their core expertise.
Unfortunately, EVs don't need ICE engines and transmissions so they are SOL and are reduced to just assembling parts produced by others. This, of course, will cost them since they don't own any expertise to make EVs.
 
The traditional auto manufacturers have outsourced most of their "parts" and have become assemblers of parts. The only part they kept in-house was ICE engine and transmission since they considered that their core expertise.
Unfortunately, EVs don't need ICE engines and transmissions so they are SOL and are reduced to just assembling parts produced by others. This, of course, will cost them since they don't own any expertise to make EVs.
This is exactly what GM did with the Bolt by outsourcing most of the electrical parts from LG.

See the interesting overview from Sandy Munro: A Farewell to the Chevy Bolt)

Tesla full vertical integration is an inequivalent advantage.
 
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How it might have been:
Prius (1997) - Ford responds with Maverick Hybrid.
GM EV1 (GM crushes in 2002) - Ford responds with Maverick BEV
Ford could have sold both versions (offering both versions even today).

How different things might have looked today.

Sandy Munro quotes Sin Tzu: attack where your enemy is not. Ford might have developed into a leader in electrification.
 
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