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EVs will fail because of a lack of non-ferrous metals

Discussion in 'News' started by bolosky, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. bolosky

    bolosky Member

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  2. smorgasbord

    smorgasbord Active Member

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    I already posted a link to this in another thread. The author blasted it among a number of financial sites over the weekend.
     
  3. felixtb

    felixtb RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4

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    yap, and the problem here is that the financial institutions do not know enough about the ferrous and non-ferrous metal supply and usage in the world to not believe such an article, so it probably did a fair amount for the slight fall of tesla stock on Monday............ scary when you think idiots really can be so influential.
     
  4. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see a bar graph showing the major materials that make up an ICE, transmission, and black boxes. Steel, aluminum, copper and plastics (and platinum) all with $ signs
    and one that shows the same for Motor PEM and battery of an EV
     
  5. bolosky

    bolosky Member

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    #5 bolosky, Jun 27, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
    I don't have that, but here's a neat chart that shows the relative abundance of elements in the Earth's crust. One entertaining thing is that Lithium is several times more abundant than copper, so all the folks that are saying that we can't do EVs because of a lack of Li are somewhat lost. Oh, and aluminum (which is the main metal used to make the roadster and presumably model S) is more abundant than iron (both by count of atoms, not by mass), so it seems like ferrous metals might be more of a limit. On the other hand, platinum (for catalytic converters) is more than 100M times more rare than aluminum.

    File:Elemental abundances.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    [Edit: I typed "core" when I meant "crust." Fixed.]
     
  6. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    Plus, um, industrial metals aren't burned in consumption. So trying to make the comparison with that of hydrocarbons is apples to oranges.
     
  7. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #7 stopcrazypp, Jun 28, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
    Seems like our old friend John Petersen. And it seems like the exact same story, only talking about slightly different metals and with nothing to new to back it up (no link to a new study or to any calculations/evidence to prove his argument). And the familiar push for lead-acid-carbon batteries and then the disclosure about him owning stock in Axion Power. I don't know why people still take him seriously.

    I wonder if anyone will do an "analyzing the analyst" on him and see how many of his predictions panned out. I know he was massively wrong on his prediction of the Leaf's price (he predicted $44k, he was off by $10k when the price was unveiled literally less than a day after). But I don't follow him so I'm not sure what other predictions he made.

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/4884-More-anti-ev-gibberish?highlight=petersen

    And of course a pretty harsh poke at Tesla, but with nothing substantial to back it up except unsupported claims ("immense amounts of industrial metals"; where's the proof Tesla will use much more than a typical car in its class; a rough estimate by curb weight already says that is not true).
     
  8. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

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    Not a shock.
     
  9. zack

    zack Member

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    His own arguments can so easily be used against him. He harps on and on about recycling... there's nothing to stop electric car manufacturers from using recycled metals to build their cars. How can he claim that solar and wind power are non-viable? They're already tremendously successful and they certainly aren't using more precious materials than nuclear or coal plants, plus they're very recyclable as well. This dude is just plain weird.
     
  10. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    I battle Peterson on a daily basis at Seeking Alpha.
     
  11. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    BBC News - Japan finds rare earths in Pacific seabed

     

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