Ex-GM vice chair blasts Tesla, saying supporters 'like members of a religious cult'

[stopcrazypp]

The question is: does GM make a profit on Volts or Bolts? or only after adding in the profits from their ICE products which were propped by the ZEV credits? Lutz is likely projecting GM's loosing money on their EVs onto Tesla ... oopsy.

I'm pretty sure the Volt is profitable, even though sales were lower than expected. The Bolt I remember reading will be narrowly profitable at the given price. Outside of the unlikely scenario of it being a huge flop like the ELR, I would presume both would be profitable, although far less than the large SUVs GM sells for example.

 

[jbcarioca]

You must be kidding

Nope! He has been consistent that hybrids c an work, pure electric don't. In fact he said repeatedly that Tesla could "solve it's problems" by going to hybrids. He also fought fir the Volt.

 

[Pdub2015]

You need to understand that some car buyers and owners not only do not believe in EV technology, they believe NiMH batteries are going to be a huge toxic waste issue in the future.

Whether they are right or wrong isn't the point. The fact they exist is the point.

Yeah, and some of them think nuclear is a clean option...

 

[JeffK]

Yeah, and some of them think nuclear is a clean option...

Relative to coal, nuclear is very clean.

 

[Pdub2015]

Relative to coal, nuclear is very clean.

Except for that pesky and yet-to-be-solved problem of dealing with the nuclear waste.

 

[JeffK]

Except for that pesky and yet-to-be-solved problem of dealing with the nuclear waste.

Keep in mind the core of the Earth is still hot from radiation.

If you have a choice between something that's challenging to contain long term vs something that's killing people today, the choice is simple.

Yucca Mountain, for example, is said to possibly be able to hold waste for 1 million years.

 

[ggr]

Please take the nuclear discussion where it belongs: Nuclear power
Everything that's just been said has been said before, many times.

 

[SageBrush]

Nope! He has been consistent that hybrids c an work, pure electric don't. In fact he said repeatedly that Tesla could "solve it's problems" by going to hybrids. He also fought fir the Volt.

Start here
And then here

Lutz has a selective memory. He says that the Volt was born of watching Tesla, but then he copied the Prius, albeit with a bigger battery and poor programming where efficiency was sacrificed in order to make it an "EREV." Of course he may not have had much choice given Toyota's patent portfolio so the "EREV" marketing may have just been a case of sugar-coating what was achievable.

First rule of marketers: Hype thyself

 

[Tony8489]

The second Lutz article shows that he changed his view about hybrids vs. the first article.

This paragraph from the 2009 article shows that he should have since changed his view about BEV's.
Lutz raises his eyebrows. "Utilitarian?" A car is not an appliance, he says. A car is not a washing machine -- the proof of which is that people do not lust after their washing machines. They lust after a beautiful car, he says. If you want reliable, go get yourself a refrigerator. A gorgeous car, he says, is an expression of power and yearning, especially for owners who hope the vehicles will inject excitement and romance into their otherwise mundane lives. "Show me a washing machine that can do that," Lutz says.
It sounds like the reason the expensive Model S vastly outsells the more utilitarian Volt to me.

 

[SageBrush]

The second Lutz article shows that he changed his view about hybrids vs. the first article.

This paragraph from the 2009 article shows that he should have since changed his view about BEV's.
Lutz raises his eyebrows. "Utilitarian?" A car is not an appliance, he says. A car is not a washing machine -- the proof of which is that people do not lust after their washing machines. They lust after a beautiful car, he says. If you want reliable, go get yourself a refrigerator. A gorgeous car, he says, is an expression of power and yearning, especially for owners who hope the vehicles will inject excitement and romance into their otherwise mundane lives. "Show me a washing machine that can do that," Lutz says.
It sounds like the reason the expensive Model S vastly outsells the more utilitarian Volt to me.

You are forgetting the other pipe dream: being a responsible, positive human being.

Lutz cannot accept that POV even existing, let alone sustaining a car company. Which is why he is GM and EM is Tesla. Lutz's POV that a car is a fantasy is not wrong, it is just only part of the entire story.

 

[Jeff N]

Of course he may not have had much choice given Toyota's patent portfolio so the "EREV" marketing may have just been a case of sugar-coating what was achievable.

Which explains why the 2016 Chevy Malibu hybrid gets 15% better gas mpg than its Toyota counterpart, the Camry hybrid?

The Malibu isn't based on any Toyota patents. If anything, the Toyota design is built on earlier 1995 GM patents which are referenced as prior art by Toyota. Malibu's hybrid transaxle is based on a GM patent filed in 2001. The same basic transaxle is used in the 2016 and later Volt.

The first gen Volt used a series mode plus power-split design that was built using 70% parts taken from a FWD hybrid transaxle that never made it into a marketed vehicle due to the economic crash in 2008. Doing that lowered the engineering risk and the design has been reliable. The previous FWD hybrid transaxle was technically unsuited for an EREV.


Revenge of the Two-Mode Hybrid - HybridCars.com

 

[Nikxice]

Lutz was just paraded out again for about 5 minutes on CNBC to discuss October's drop in GM sales. He quickly changed the subject to his favorite obsession, Tesla, then went on his usual tirade. What a joke. I believe I heard him describe the Model X as a big ugly insect. Perhaps late in life his goal now is to try and create an anti-Tesla cult.

 

[3Victoria]

Just expected and predicted FUD-fest. Big Auto and Oil is starting to hurt, and they are striking out. Not pretty but expected.

 

[Shock-On-T]

You never see Bob Lutz and Donald Trump together in the same room.

I'm not saying they're the same person but I'm not saying they're not the same person either.

 

[3Victoria]

There is talk that they might be the same. I can't say, but ....