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Exact suspension differences from the PUP?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by matto, Aug 16, 2018.

  1. matto

    matto Member

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    I've read that the PUP doesn't change shocks or springs, just drops the car 1cm. Has anyone confirmed this as fact?

    I ask because I drove a RWD with 18's back-to-back with an AWD with 20's and the turn in was night and day different. The 18's were a lot squisher feeling. I expected the taller profile all-seasons to make a difference, but I'm left wondering whether some of it was the suspension as well.
     
  2. eigenv1

    eigenv1 Member

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    All performance models (P- and P+) have thicker stabilizer bars. That could account for some of the difference. P+ is about 4/10” lower but that could be because of the redisigned trailing links necessary to maintain camber with the 20” wheels/tires. Last, but certainly not least, the 20” tires are summer performance tires which, in warm weather, will make handling much better than the stock eco tires on the 18” wheels. However, those same summer performance tires can be purchased on 18” to fit the 18” wheels.
     
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  3. matto

    matto Member

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    Oh P has stiffer sway bars?? That could be a factor in what I felt for sure.

    Do you know if the lowering is done by shorter springs? Or just removing stack from somewhee?
     
  4. Stellavator

    Stellavator Member

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    Umm, also you drove a RWD vs AWD. The AWD will drive and feel different.
     
  5. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Is there any specific confirmation of that? (and the exact difference?)

    and if so the next obvious question would be about putting the P ones on a regular AWD :)

    (I know Tesla likely wouldn't sell them to you- but with exact measurements they'd be easy enough for some company to make/sell as an upgrade)
     
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  6. khraiv

    khraiv Member

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    @Knightshade link
     
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  7. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    ... that link does not support the claim.

    That link suggests the RWD car simply lacks a front bar (which isn't true either- as I point out in post #4 of that very thread)

    Post #6 is a guy speculating the bars might be different on the P, with no evidence of it. That's as near to the claim in this thread as that thread gets.
     
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  8. Funkmobile

    Funkmobile Member

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    Different stabilizer bars but everything else seems to be the same (starts at 1m 20 seconds):

     
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  9. matto

    matto Member

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    Cool. So that video says there's a stiffer front sway bar, but the rest of the non-PUP suspension is the same as the RWD.

    Anyone have confirmation on the changes from non-PUP to PUP?
     
  10. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Now THAT at least partly supports the claim in this thread (from post 2), thanks! :)

    Where it's tricky is 2-fold:

    1) He states the P has a different set of front/rear bars than the RWD does (which confirms the original post in that other thread was wrong in claiming the RWD lacked a front bar).... but he doesn't state the bars are thicker just different with any detail on how. (though thicker seems likely at least)

    2) He hasn't been under an AWD non-P- so it's possible the difference is 1 vs 2 motors, not P vs anything else, and non-P AWD has the same bars as the P- this might make some sense as handling will be different based on 1 vs 2 motors. If they were really wanting the P specifically to have different handling than anything else they wouldn't have left the shocks/springs the same as the base model.
     
  11. eigenv1

    eigenv1 Member

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    Start here

    Take a first look under the Tesla Model 3 Performance

     
  12. eigenv1

    eigenv1 Member

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  13. eigenv1

    eigenv1 Member

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    One more data point from a well-respected person (Mad Hungarian) on August 5th

    Dual Motor, Performance & Perf Upgrade Differences

    Post #5

    "Some very interesting points on differences with the Dual/base P3D compared to the RWD chassis in Ingineerix's latest video of the P3D chassis.
    What's really curious is that he claims the springs part numbers are identical to the ones on his RWD. So it appears the lower springs may only come with the PUP/PUO (or whatever we're calling the upgrade this week), however the P3D has beefier swaybars.
    I'm really surprised that the front springs remain the same on any of the Duals, I would have thought for sure they'd increase the rate to compensate for the added weight."
     
  14. matto

    matto Member

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    That is strange that they would use the same exact springs when there's a heavier engine up there.

    So it's possible the PUP has not only lower springs, but significantly different spring rates. So if I end up not liking the handling of my non-PUP performance, i could make them equal by:

    1. New springs
    2. New end links (?) to keep camber with lowered suspension
    3. Alignment

    I'd add 19's not 20's.
     
  15. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Again there remains 0 proof the springs are different on any model 3.

    The tiny height difference on the P3D+ could well be to fix wheel alignment with the 20s (remember the standalone 20 package changed the suspension for exactly that reason- don't know if anyone ever measured if it did anything to ride height though).

    If the springs ARE different it's pretty weird they'd make an entirely different spring JUST for the P3D+ (adding a lot of supply chain and manufacturing complexity) and then only drop it by 1 centimeter.
     
  16. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    But they already make a lot of other things exclusive to the P3D+: calipers/rotors, pedal covers, carbon fiber spoiler, etc. so what is one more part to deal with?
     
  17. usofrob

    usofrob Member

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    The difference is that the pedal covers, spoiler and badges are installed by the dealer.
     
  18. matto

    matto Member

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    So what exactly are the suspension changes to support the 20" wheels anyway? The tire diameter is damn near the same as the 18's and 19's, so I don't get why a suspension modification is needed.

    And I certainly don't see how it would lower the car 1cm
     
  19. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    The spoiler doesn't exist on the other cars, so that doesn't really count (you never have to check if you're installing the 'right' spoiler- or if you have enough of Spoiler A, versus Spoiler B, for the # of configs you're building next week)

    (not to mention they're not even doing those at the factory right now...)

    But every part there's 2 of doubles both supply chain complexity and MFG complexity to build cars (plus repair chain down the line)

    Remember Elon originally said no to the pedal covers for exactly that reason but eventually capitulated?

    Elon Musk on Twitter

    So pretty clearly he wants as few as possible cases of it.... and it's pretty much just the brakes and pedal covers that fit that bill for factory installed parts to our current knowledge.... (even the 20s and suspension change to make them work were existing parts being sold since March for the RWD they are just slapping on the P3D+ rather than making better/wider wheels for the performance cars)

    (Possibly the sway bars- but it's unclear how "exclusive" that part is- the different bars might appear on all AWD models- we know they're on both the P and P+ so far- but possibly also regular AWD too- we won't know until someone gets under one to check... (and in theory they might even be on the RWD now- the "original" one that was compared was a much earlier build... so it's possible the ones he saw under the P were just the newer bars they're using on everything- this already happened with springs/shocks on the RWD the originals were discontinued in favor of somewhat softer ones when too many people said the ride sucked- they weren't ever running both parts in production, one replaced the other- could be the same with the sway bars).


    In other news- if anybody wanted to spring for a subscription to Teslas parts catalog it'd clear a LOT of this stuff up :)
     
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  20. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Model 3 20" Sport Wheel and Tire Package

    See mention of the rear upper fore links needing changing

    You can absolutely change ride height with different links- some folks actually install adjustable links to give themselves adjustable ride height.

    Here's an example of it-

    Lowered my car this morning with adjustable links: Key steps that ensure precision

    We don't know that's the entire cause of the difference- but it's certainly possible, and it'd explain why nobody has shown evidence of different springs/shocks on the P, and why it's such a small height difference.
     

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