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Exactly How Strong is the Regen?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by ZeApelido, Jan 6, 2018.

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  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    I currently drive a LEAF and a Prius Prime. I don't know if they program regen the same but both have been intuitive so I have not learned details. Now I am wondering if the Tesla way of doing things will require some relearning and perhaps conflict when I swap cars.

    Do I understand correctly that in a Tesla:
    Regen is not initiated until the accelerator is fully released ?
    Once initiated, progressive pressure on accelerator modulates it down until off ?
    Does brake application add even more regen, up to the system maximum ?
     
  2. DFibRL8R

    DFibRL8R Active Member

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    #62 DFibRL8R, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
    No, in the Teslas, regen kicks in prior to fully releasing the accelerator. This allows the driver to modulate the amount of regen from none (coasting) to full regen (foot off accelerator). The brake pedal only applies the friction brake and adds no additional regen. For most efficient driving in Teslas, try to avoid using the brake since it just creates energy loss from heat.

    I took delivery of my Model 3 last week and the regen definitely feels less aggressive than on my Model S (RWD 60). Hopefully Tesla pushes an upgrade with a higher regen option. Also driving with Autopilot (which is new for me), I find the car chooses to use the brakes to slow in traffic much more than I do in similar driving conditions. I believe I am looking further ahead in traffic and anticipating slow downs sooner than the Tesla camera/radar systems. So for those passengers that don't like a jerky ride, this might not be acceptable.
     
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  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Perfect. No relearning for me!
     
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  4. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    My take is that it can be a bit jarring for passengers if the driver doesn't use the accelerator to modulate the regen, but instead just "dumps" the pedal.

    Most ICE cars have relatively mild engine braking (manuals in lower gear being the exception), so letting up on the accelerator typically invokes a bit of "coasting time" until the driver then starts to apply additional braking (excepting abrupt stops, of course). This allows a little transition from acceleration to deceleration.

    With regen, I've found it more comfortable for folks if I release the accelerator progressively to accomplish the same thing. I find it makes me a smoother driver as well.
     
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  5. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

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    Not what I was suggesting. Having more resolution in the GUI for the maximum regen is. If you completely remove your foot from the pedal, how much regen do you get? Some people want heavy regen with lots of deceleration. Others might feel that heavy regen is too much deceleration for not pressing the brakes. Everyone is different and I don't want less regen because Tesla wants to make everyone happy, let me select the amount of regen that I get when I lift off the accelerator . I would choose the highest. Not everyone would.
     
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  6. Need

    Need Active Member

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    We just got a MX and the regen is really strong on Standard. It took us a while to get used to it. Pretty much I don't have to hit the brake on local street except when it comes to a stop.. have to hit it to engage the hill stop so the car won't roll back if it is on a slope. It is really strange that you don't have to use the brake on a right turn traveling on 45mph road. A few times I tap the brake in the beginning of the turn the car behind me almost hit me as the MX almost came to a complete stop.

    But now I am driving a MS loaner (while the MX is in SC), I can barely feel the regen brake. It is there, but it is about half as strong or less. It is set at Standard too. I am wondering if it has to do with the MS is a 2-wheel drive instead of 4-wheel drive. Or because the MX is much heavier. But anyway, the current M3 out there is 2 wheel drive too and lighter than the MS, so I don't think the regen brake will be that noticeable.
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    "Standard" model 3 regen feels stronger than LEAF regen. But Model 3 has an option to reduce the amount of regen.

    You can do "one pedal driving" with model 3 in most traffic where just easing off the accelerator slows you down quickly enough for most situations and you don't need the (friction) brake pedal unless you are stopping completely.
     
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  8. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

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    In a Tesla the only time I ever need to use the brakes are either right when coming to a complete stop or emergency braking. I find the regen is strong enough for all normal braking needs. The Model 3 feels even a bit better at low speed city braking than the Model S.
     
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  9. Oil Freedom

    Oil Freedom Member

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    Sure, the same way it can be jarring for passengers if I suddenly floor it. :p It's a choice. If I want to give my passengers a comfortable ride, I'm not gonna randomly floor it or abruptly take my foot off the power pedal for full regen (unless I need to slow very quickly for traffic, etc.).

    It's really just the other side of the same coin, right? Adjusting to regen is as easy as learning how you get a little or a lot of power depending how much you press the pedal down. Modulating the amount of regen works the very same way. Super easy and really smooth if you want it to be (and didn't just learn how to drive yesterday). ;)
     
  10. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    In essence I was suggesting indeed that it's the driver's fault, not an bad implementation on Tesla's part, in response to it seeming "odd" that some passengers don't' like it.
     
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  11. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Active Member

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    Remember this is a Tesla. Initial production will have a specific regeneration that Tesla feels will optimize the system and make the most people satisfied.

    I would suspect that regen could be adjusted in the future VIA OTA updates to offer variations of settings.

    They might offer a mild, standard and hard settings to satisfy different driving styles.

    When the dual motor is released, expect more regen to be available due to 2 motors slowing the car down than only one.

    It is impossible to release a regen amount that will be perfect for every individual.

    Love the regeneration in my X. I pride myself in a smooth driving technique and tend to modulate the peddle to provide a very smooth acceleration and deceleration. Thats just me. My G/F is hard on the gas then steps off causing me to rock back and forth in the seat. That is how she chooses to drive...drives me crazy. (Don't be that guy)

    I am addicted to regeneration. On the occasion when I am driving with a 100% charge and regen is unavailable I hate using the brakes for 100% of deceleration.
     
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  12. novox77

    novox77 1.21 Gigawatts

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    Read thru this entire thread and I get the impression that some people engage regen by letting go of the accelerator completely. Unless you're doing this at highway speeds (where regen is firmware modulated to be less to prevent an oversteer condition), this will be jarring to passengers, similar to not feathering the clutch up on a manual tranny. If you feather the accelerator, the regenerative braking will be gradual.

    I can confirm in my RWD S on slushy roads, if I allow the car to regen brake while either going down a hill or taking a 90 degree turn, I will start to oversteer (fishtail). By applying a bit of throttle and neutralizing regen, I maintain traction. One explanation for tesla's lesser regen than other EVs is one of safety.

    Another reason, perhaps a minor one, is that Tesla is really good about firmware limiting certain conditions to maximize the longevity of Li-Ion batteries. Higher regen causes more heat in the batteries, which causes lithium to plate on the anode and therefore reduce overall charge capacity. Given how well Tesla batteries hold up over time compared with other manufacturer's EVs, I trust Tesla is making the right call with things like this.
     
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  13. ℬête Noire

    ℬête Noire Active Member

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    #73 ℬête Noire, Feb 1, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
    If the M3 is less regen than the Bolt "L" & also I don't have the option to use light brake to nudge up the regen a bit, I'm probably going to miss that. I like the Bolt regen generally. I could use a smidgen less and have the paddle be at the same spot it is, to give a little more differentiation there (because the difference feels to slight now). So really sounds like the Tesla is where I'd like the Bolt to be but also with the retarding "paddle". That's without experiencing how the rest of the semi-auto driving UX works, of course.

    I'd also like to set the Bolt to default to "L" so I don't have to always double-tap though "D" when engaging the drive. That's a relatively minor annoyance, though.

    P.S. My wife was fine with the Bolt "L"....until she then went back to her Camry on the weekend and the lack of aggressive regen scared the crap out of her. She'd gotten used to the Bolt really fast and felt freaked out by relying on it, so now she's back to using "D".


    EDIT: BTW years back when I had a auto transmission Jeep Liberty, and drove a lot of miles primarily dirt/gravel roads and off-road for work, I would use the console shifter somewhat like a clutchless manual to use engine braking. Drove 200K of very hard miles before selling it with lots of pad left on the one set of aftermarket brake pads I'd installed. So "one pedal" is something that's always had an appeal to me, even outside of manual transmissions.
     
  14. JoeS

    JoeS Member

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    For years I drove my Gen1 Honda Insight modified with MIMA which gave me fingertip joystick control over it's electric motor regeneration (and acceleration). On the old Aptera forum I was encouraging them to develop paddle regen control. Six years ago I bought the Mitsubishi i-MiEV rather than the Leaf primarily because of the Leaf's wimpy regen. I've always wished that my MS85 would provide both more regen and regen programmability. I especially like the Bolt's options and ability to bring the car to a complete stop in L. The Bolt's paddle implementation is ok, but I wish it provided a linear response to paddle displacement, instead of merely being an on/off switch - allowing more finesse in control over regen. Tesla, are you listening...?
     
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  15. pilotSteve

    pilotSteve Active Member

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    I've had an S85 (2012), S90D (2016) and now TM3 (2018). Here are my comparisons between their subjective regen braking strengths:

    1- RWD S85 had good but "not enough" regen braking for my taste. It changed somewhat (stronger) from the early firmware thru the latest 2016 version. However I wonder if the RWD was a large part of the limitation.

    2- AWD S90D. Has *very good* regen. I've driven manual transmission for years so I would *like* to have it even stronger, but it is very usable to do almost all deceleration (especially when you "lift early and often" and only brake when coming to a complete stop or if heavy braking is needed of course on the freeway.

    3-RWD TM3. Has noticeably less regen than the S90D. Often I wish for more. I keep checking that I've got regen set on "full"..... Again I suspect its by design as a RWD car to avoid destabilizing the car at higher speed, similar to my S85.

    The limited regen is so far the *only* thing that I greatly prefer about my S90D over the TM3.

    AWD TM3 is probably going to be the ideal machine for me......
     
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  16. ZeApelido

    ZeApelido Member

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    Perhaps this has been discussed elsewhere, but currently seems like max regen at lowish speeds is around 0.22g in my RWD LR model 3.
     
  17. Glamisduner

    Glamisduner Active Member

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    I think this is only for the RWD varient. The Regen on the 3 AWD is very good! it will stop you noticeably faster than the AWD S regen too. At least this was very noticeable when I had a loaner 75D.
     
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  18. VT_EE

    VT_EE Member

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    An update late last year increased the regen on the RWD noticeably.
     
  19. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Ironically, that coincided with temperatures dropping and more regen limiting kicking in. I feel like I have less regen than I had in the summer.
     
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  20. VT_EE

    VT_EE Member

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    Unfortunately, there isn't much we can do about the temperature. Regen is nice and strong though once the battery warms up!
     
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