NigelM
Recovering Member
Mod Note: let's please not rehash the service plan argument here. There's two threads in existence. Thanks!
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Kipernicus
Model S Res#P1440
I suspect there have been very few, but what we need is actual data. There's not much value in simply declaring our suspicions, particularly in big capitol letters.
While the car handles well, the amount of energy required to move 4600+ lbs is substantial and easily noticed when driving the car. This feeling is even more prevalent in the Fisker. The Panamera while being a similar size but weighing 3900 lbs felt much more nimble and maneuverable, but has similar skidpad numbers as the Model S due to the S's lower center of gravity and lateral stability.
We sold the Panny because after a year of driving it and seeing more and more on the street, my wife became tired of its sheer bulk, which detracted from its fun to drive factor. I suspect the Tesla S attraction may wear off for many buyers after the newness, coolness, and rareness factors wear off. It's just easier to throw around a smaller car when doing errands around town or navigating through parking lots. For those doing mostly highway driving it should be great save for the mediocre front seats. The front seats in the AMG Mercedes, M BMW's, Porsches, and Lexus F Sports are much more comfortable and provide much greater lateral support. At $65,000+,that's the class of car Tesla is competing with.
Yes, the Model S is a great car, but it's still a little unrefined. Nothing that time and experience cannot correct, after all this car is really starting from scratch.
Regarding the maintenance costs, I think that they should include the first year for free, then $600/year afterward seems more reasonable.
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If the roadster could be a track toy, then I'd be all in. I did look at two roadtsers before deciding on a highly modded Cayman S which sees the track every couple of months.
We sold the Panny because after a year of driving it and seeing more and more on the street, my wife became tired of its sheer bulk, which detracted from its fun to drive factor. I suspect the Tesla S attraction may wear off for many buyers after the newness, coolness, and rareness factors wear off. It's just easier to throw around a smaller car when doing errands around town or navigating through parking lots. For those doing mostly highway driving it should be great save for the mediocre front seats. The front seats in the AMG Mercedes, M BMW's, Porsches, and Lexus F Sports are much more comfortable and provide much greater lateral support. At $65,000+,that's the class of car Tesla is competing with.
Yes, the Model S is a great car, but it's still a little unrefined. Nothing that time and experience cannot correct, after all this car is really starting from scratch.
Regarding the maintenance costs, I think that they should include the first year for free, then $600/year afterward seems more reasonable.
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If the roadster could be a track toy, then I'd be all in. I did look at two roadtsers before deciding on a highly modded Cayman S which sees the track every couple of months.
Incredulocious
LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y
Just wanted to chime in that I agree with your points about size and weight, how that makes it feel (fast but not nimble), maintenance costs, etc. and I would add lack of efficiency from being such a very big, heavy car. I also recently and reluctantly cancelled my Model S reservation and look forward to seeing what they're able to do in a smaller, sportier size.
teslasguy
MSP P#1117
I'm really surprised by all the discussion about this car being so big. My reaction since the test drive in July has been that I actually expected it to be a little bigger.
I currently drive a minivan, and previously had a BMW740IL, so I guess I'm just used to larger vehicles. That is of course except for my Porsche and my Corvette.
Seriously, I had really hoped for a little more back seat leg room. The back seat leg room in my 740IL was so big that it came with foot rests! But in the final analysis, to each his/her own. No right or wrong here. For me I love a "bigger" car for the luxurious drive/feel i got from driving this chariot.
I currently drive a minivan, and previously had a BMW740IL, so I guess I'm just used to larger vehicles. That is of course except for my Porsche and my Corvette.
Seriously, I had really hoped for a little more back seat leg room. The back seat leg room in my 740IL was so big that it came with foot rests! But in the final analysis, to each his/her own. No right or wrong here. For me I love a "bigger" car for the luxurious drive/feel i got from driving this chariot.
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I do. It's free for 50K miles. Unlimited. I was pretty "enthusiastic" about the car when I first got it and burned through three sets of pads/rotors in first year. All free. You can optionally extend to 100K miles-- not sure of the cost.
With size and weight, it's all what youre accustomed to. Although I currently drive more reasonably sized vehicles, my previous generation included a Phateon and an Escalade Esv. These make the S seem nubile. Each had its own postal code while the Pheaton weighed 5400 and the ESV 6000. They were initially intidating but after a while I could even parallel park the ESV.
And while I think the service is a little steep and probably should have been included, I will pay it if I never have to deal with VW service again.
And while I think the service is a little steep and probably should have been included, I will pay it if I never have to deal with VW service again.
I just can't understand the logic behind canceling your reservation because the car is heavy. What do I care how heavy the car is? if the car can go 265 miles per change it can be 17,000 lbs for all I care.
It also does not drive like it is as heavy as it truly is.
So with those two things combined it leaves me scratching my head.
Heavy? Yes
265/charge? Yes
Safe? Yes
Agile? Yes
DONE.
It also does not drive like it is as heavy as it truly is.
So with those two things combined it leaves me scratching my head.
Heavy? Yes
265/charge? Yes
Safe? Yes
Agile? Yes
DONE.
I may have this wrong but all the safety systems in the world can't outperform the weight of some of the other vehicles out there from what I understand at least. With all the trucks down here in Texas, I'm happy to be stepping up to a heavier car for my daily driver. I agree with NEWDL. It may be heavy but it performs like a sports car with decent range. Safety should be a top priority for a family sedan and looks like Tesla went after that and succeeded. That's not to say they should make the heaviest car they can but find the right balance between safety, range and performance.
EXACTLY!
I really do not feel the car is excessively large or heavy.
It is large
It is heavy
What were you expecting?
When I worked for TESLA in 2009 I was telling folks it was going to be roughly 4,000 lbs. We all knew this from day 1.
I really do not feel the car is excessively large or heavy.
It is large
It is heavy
What were you expecting?
When I worked for TESLA in 2009 I was telling folks it was going to be roughly 4,000 lbs. We all knew this from day 1.
smorgasbord
Active Member
Some people just don't want a large car... Many here have passed on the S for that very reason. We all have different needs, chill.
It does not perform like any sports car I know of. It performs like a large sedan with good handling and acceleration.
If it weighed 4000 lbs, the range would likely be 200/275/350, and the car would handle significantly better.
Don't know about that. At speed, you are consuming charge to push air out of the way (and some mechanical friction) much more than accelerating a heavy mass. That's one of the cool things about EVs: the normal penalty for accelerating a big mass can be recovered via regen in mountain and urban driving.
I think the design decision to make a big car with a big battery and a big range was a reasonable one-- it just yielded a car that is too big for a lot of folks.
As stated previously everybody is entitled to their own reasons. With that said, I also do scratch my head as to why these reasons matter. I get the whole large car aspect, but why now... You had a panamera so you knew the heft already? The steering feel is subjective some think its too heavy but that was the whole point of on the fly switching.
In respect to the whole 600/year maintenance I do respect that people think its a turn off, but I don't see why it's reason to not buy the car altogether. The competition this car has easily costs more. Yes, BMWs are maintenance free for whatever mileage it may be, but savings in fuel costs and avoidance of any future maintenance past the service interval have to be taken into account. Furthermore, gas guzzler tax should be taken into account with high performance sedans. For those where 600 a year makes it a stretch... I would reevaluate my budgeting skills lol.
The tesla model s can definitely outperform sports cars. Not some super cars but a 0-60 of 3.9 or even 4.4 can smoke a lot on the road.
In respect to the whole 600/year maintenance I do respect that people think its a turn off, but I don't see why it's reason to not buy the car altogether. The competition this car has easily costs more. Yes, BMWs are maintenance free for whatever mileage it may be, but savings in fuel costs and avoidance of any future maintenance past the service interval have to be taken into account. Furthermore, gas guzzler tax should be taken into account with high performance sedans. For those where 600 a year makes it a stretch... I would reevaluate my budgeting skills lol.
The tesla model s can definitely outperform sports cars. Not some super cars but a 0-60 of 3.9 or even 4.4 can smoke a lot on the road.
I drive a Prius and a Hybrid Escalade.
I think the size of the Model S is a tad too big also, but it's acceptable. The size, of course, is made worse by non-powered folding side view mirrors.
However, parking a large sized vehicle in a parking lot is not a big deal; you get used it. I don't feel I have any more difficulty parking the Escalade over the Prius. Although I may have to pass on a few narrow-sized parking spaces while in the Escalade, so what? Walking is good for you anyway, and I don't think I'd park the Model S so close to other cars. In fact, I'll probably be parking where there's a lot of parking spaces available to avoid door dings - at the distal end of the parking lot.
Now, it's time to enjoy 265mi EV range, magnetized rollercoaster-like acceleration, ginormous LCD, and a refreshing freedom from OPEC's whims or time taken to refill on gas. My home page in the car will be WSJ.com!
I think the size of the Model S is a tad too big also, but it's acceptable. The size, of course, is made worse by non-powered folding side view mirrors.
However, parking a large sized vehicle in a parking lot is not a big deal; you get used it. I don't feel I have any more difficulty parking the Escalade over the Prius. Although I may have to pass on a few narrow-sized parking spaces while in the Escalade, so what? Walking is good for you anyway, and I don't think I'd park the Model S so close to other cars. In fact, I'll probably be parking where there's a lot of parking spaces available to avoid door dings - at the distal end of the parking lot.
Now, it's time to enjoy 265mi EV range, magnetized rollercoaster-like acceleration, ginormous LCD, and a refreshing freedom from OPEC's whims or time taken to refill on gas. My home page in the car will be WSJ.com!
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