Excessive vampire drain in cold

[user212_nr]

I'm trying not to dismiss the possibility that this is the case, but it leaves open some questions. Are you saying it runs the HVAC for well over an hour after leaving the car and locking it up? The heater maxes out at 6kW I believe, and 2kW for the A/C. Assuming both ran continuously at max (they wouldn't), it would take nearly an hour to drain 10% of an LR battery. This doesn't seem right.

I can't remember if the nights align or not, but there were also days where we started and ended our drive with climate control off. If it's turning on after we leave and lock the car, I cannot fathom any beneficial reason for that behaviour. I'd happily burn over to California and give someone at Tesla HQ an earful for that.

The heater uses the most amount of power when you first enter the car, in order to go from say 20F to 70-80F. Then it will run continuously with lower power. This can easily amount to 5-10% of total battery power, unless you leave. You do not notice when parked at home due to the ability of the car to top off from A/C.

The car did probably not run while you were away. You say it was a little warm, that it is likely because of leftover heat from your driving.

I'm not even 30 yet haha, but I have indeed worked on my own vehicles with my dad, who is a mechanic. If it were a matter of maintenance being different that'd be fine for most people. I'm referring to literally having the car parked being a burden here. Even looking at it myself as an excited early adopter, this is not the way forward if this is how EVs behave in the cold. In my province (which is a bit cold), we're trying to ban sales of gas/diesel vehicles by 2040. I have concerns if every vehicle here starts burning through 6kWh every day just to be parked.

You experiences are not typical, hence the maintenance / proper use (light bulb left on) analogies.

 

[camalaio]

The heater uses the most amount of power when you first enter the car, in order to go from say 20F to 70-80F. Then it will run continuously with lower power. This can easily amount to 5-10% of total battery power, unless you leave. You do not notice when parked at home due to the ability of the car to top off from A/C.

The car did probably not run while you were away. You say it was a little warm, that it is likely because of leftover heat from your driving.

You experiences are not typical, hence the maintenance / proper use (light bulb left on) analogies.

Even when the heater is using the most it possibly can (assuming the alleged 6kW or even 7kW limit), that's not enough to drop 5-10% over a few seconds of grabbing something from the car. It would have to be more like 400kW to do that over the course of a full minute, which is more power than is sent to both motors at full throttle with a 100% charged battery. Heating draws a lot, but not that much?

That said, it is a PTC heater. I'm not sure if the 6kW I mentioned is the sort of inrush power when the heater is cold, or if that's the maximum steady state power it can put out once hot (in which case, when cold, it could draw significantly more). Even then though, it should reach steady state relatively quickly. (forgive my lack of correct terminology for PTC elements)

I'm sort of seeing that my experience is atypical, but there's a few things that pique my interest about this:

• Others have noted they have similar results but just haven't noticed before
• Others have been informed by Tesla that this is normal (big yikes)
• Most of the time for most owners, a Tesla is garage-kept or plugged in overnight* (or for multiple days in a row). Even when staying overnight at hotels, going by historical posts on here most try to arrange overnight charging (something that was outside of my control this time). There's going to be significantly less people that have similar experiences to what I'm bringing up simply because it's currently rare.

The last point is interesting in the context of my comment. Right now, it's mostly people that can afford newer (and expensive!) vehicles that have EVs, so they likely do have a charging or garage setup for overnight. As EV adoption continues (as the gov't wants it to), less and less people are going to be plugging in overnight or even keeping it in a garage simply because the demographic is changing. Therefore, assuming my issues are from the cold and not due to some fault of either mine or Tesla's, the issue I'm seeing may move from atypical to typical.

But I'm just some dude on the internet. Thankfully temps are staying fairly warm still.

EDIT: * There are lot of people in California that live off of Superchargers and at-work charging, with no garage or at-home charging options. They also live in California, where cold is not such an issue.

 

[ZooSean]

25km is roughly 5%, so 10% for a 24h period. Well, that actually sorta lines up with my experience. If that's the case, no one should buy an EV in areas that experience sub-zero if they don't have a warmer garage. That is a lot of wasted energy, and a lot of wasted money (esp. for someone who doesn't drive much). Our monthly usage is about $40-50 with a 120km commute every day, so we drive a lot. At $1/day for standby losses, that would almost double our bill even with a longer commute. Ridiculous. Thankfully it's in a garage at home that doesn't usually get below 10C.

I have been told this is because car will wake up to warm the battery to keep the battery healthy. But I don’t know how Model 3 achieve that without the battery heater.

 

[diamond.g]

I have been told this is because car will wake up to warm the battery to keep the battery healthy. But I don’t know how Model 3 achieve that without the battery heater.

Runs the inverters to heat up the glycol loop. Though the car shouldn’t wake up to heat up the battery unless the battery temp is really really low.

 

[user212_nr]

Even when the heater is using the most it possibly can (assuming the alleged 6kW or even 7kW limit), that's not enough to drop 5-10% over a few seconds of grabbing something from the car. It would have to be more like 400kW to do that over the course of a full minute, which is more power than is sent to both motors at full throttle with a 100% charged battery. Heating draws a lot, but not that much?

That said, it is a PTC heater. I'm not sure if the 6kW I mentioned is the sort of inrush power when the heater is cold, or if that's the maximum steady state power it can put out once hot (in which case, when cold, it could draw significantly more). Even then though, it should reach steady state relatively quickly. (forgive my lack of correct terminology for PTC elements)

Don't really care at this point as you say it has warmed and is no longer a problem. You can always bring your car to the service center if you really think it has an issue. You may have a hard time explaining your issue, but it is always possible that the car is defective.

 

[diamond.g]

Even when the heater is using the most it possibly can (assuming the alleged 6kW or even 7kW limit), that's not enough to drop 5-10% over a few seconds of grabbing something from the car. It would have to be more like 400kW to do that over the course of a full minute, which is more power than is sent to both motors at full throttle with a 100% charged battery. Heating draws a lot, but not that much?

That said, it is a PTC heater. I'm not sure if the 6kW I mentioned is the sort of inrush power when the heater is cold, or if that's the maximum steady state power it can put out once hot (in which case, when cold, it could draw significantly more). Even then though, it should reach steady state relatively quickly. (forgive my lack of correct terminology for PTC elements)

I'm sort of seeing that my experience is atypical, but there's a few things that pique my interest about this:

• Others have noted they have similar results but just haven't noticed before
• Others have been informed by Tesla that this is normal (big yikes)
• Most of the time for most owners, a Tesla is garage-kept or plugged in overnight* (or for multiple days in a row). Even when staying overnight at hotels, going by historical posts on here most try to arrange overnight charging (something that was outside of my control this time). There's going to be significantly less people that have similar experiences to what I'm bringing up simply because it's currently rare.

The last point is interesting in the context of my comment. Right now, it's mostly people that can afford newer (and expensive!) vehicles that have EVs, so they likely do have a charging or garage setup for overnight. As EV adoption continues (as the gov't wants it to), less and less people are going to be plugging in overnight or even keeping it in a garage simply because the demographic is changing. Therefore, assuming my issues are from the cold and not due to some fault of either mine or Tesla's, the issue I'm seeing may move from atypical to typical.

But I'm just some dude on the internet. Thankfully temps are staying fairly warm still.

EDIT: * There are lot of people in California that live off of Superchargers and at-work charging, with no garage or at-home charging options. They also live in California, where cold is not such an issue.

Have you thought about getting Scan My Tesla and recording what is happening (assuming you are close enough to connect to car)?

 

[drtimhill]

I have all the usual suspects turned off. Sorry I didn't enumerate it in my post, but nothing is different in the settings compared to when we're at home with a 1% drain. No sentry mode. No summon standby. A SD card via USB is plugged in, but it was when I was experiencing just over 1% drain as well.

At the risk of asking a dumb question, have you double-checked Standby Mode for smart summon? You say "the same settings when at home", but Standby Mode will turn off automatically when you are at home (unless you change that setting). So if you dont manually make sure its off when traveling, then it might be on. Again, sorry if you have checked this and I'm asking a dumb question.

 

[camalaio]

Don't really care at this point as you say it has warmed and is no longer a problem. You can always bring your car to the service center if you really think it has an issue. You may have a hard time explaining your issue, but it is always possible that the car is defective.

Even if I could get an appointment in time (unlikely), the nearest SC is 5 hours away (one-way) and I can't sacrifice the car for really any amount of time on this trip. At home, the nearest SC is also 5 hours away and heavily backlogged. I'll file an issue but I doubt I'll get anything beyond what another poster said, "looks normal". That's Tesla service in a nutshell.

I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining here, other people have way more important work needed on their Teslas than I currently do and they've apparently already said this is normal in the cold. My desire to make a day or two trip to be told this in person by service is extremely low.

Have you thought about getting Scan My Tesla and recording what is happening (assuming you are close enough to connect to car)?

For this and many other reasons, yes. I just don't know of a place that can ship it to the hotel in time and guarantee it's arrival (quick shipping is one battle, the company actually shipping it out in a reasonable timeframe seems to be the larger issue).

Will that OBD link actually stay powered and receiving information even when the car is asleep? If so, ohmygoodness why haven't I done this sooner.

At the risk of asking a dumb question, have you double-checked Standby Mode for smart summon? You say "the same settings when at home", but Standby Mode will turn off automatically when you are at home (unless you change that setting). So if you dont manually make sure its off when traveling, then it might be on. Again, sorry if you have checked this and I'm asking a dumb question.

No worries, I've double checked before and after starting this thread, and it's still off. I will, however, go check my settings again in 2 minutes just because.I'm hopping in the car again.

 

[user212_nr]

Even if I could get an appointment in time (unlikely), the nearest SC is 5 hours away (one-way) and I can't sacrifice the car for really any amount of time on this trip. At home, the nearest SC is also 5 hours away and heavily backlogged. I'll file an issue but I doubt I'll get anything beyond what another poster said, "looks normal". That's Tesla service in a nutshell.

I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining here, other people have way more important work needed on their Teslas than I currently do and they've apparently already said this is normal in the cold. My desire to make a day or two trip to be told this in person by service is extremely low.

Tesla cars, with a few exceptions like wipers, tires, brakes, 12v battery, etc, are not user-serviceable. The computer system is closed off and you can neither view logs nor modify the software.

I think you may qualify for remote service, especially if it is a computer issue. I'd just make sure you do it when the weather is cold (ie. next year) and be sure you have something to show them.

 

[Mikeydeek]

I was in Montreal a few weeks ago it was -10C.
Overnight from around 7pm to around noon the next day my range went from 70% to 60%. Sentry was off.

I don’t know how much was locked up in the snowflake icon though - some people say some range comes back as the battery warms.