Excessive vampire drain in cold

[camalaio]

Hey folks,

I know, I know. Another range loss thread. Another vampire drain thread. Please hear me out.

In warmer temps (above 10C, 50F) I had just above 1% vampire loss every 24h period. I was quite happy with this as it seems to be about as good as one can get. Now, I mean these are warmer temps in the garage. It gets cold at home too, but we don't park it outside.

We're in Colorado right now. It's not excessively cold (down to -5C, 23F) but ho boy has that done a number to vampire loss. I'm at 8-9% vampire drain per day right now and I don't know what to do. There is genuinely nowhere to plug in nearby. Dropping it off at the nearest L2 charger is an hour walk. I drove to the nearest CHAdeMO station to top up (this is a 2.5 hour excursion itself), but at this rate I just can't keep up. I need to make that trip every 5 days right now, and that's without using the car at all.

I'm just parking the car for goodness' sake. And losing over 6kWh/day for the privilege of doing so. I'd rather not convert that to dollars.

Is there anything I can do to slow down this cold drain?

P.S. Location was not my choice, I'm on vacation joining my wife while she's here for work. We can't always pick $200/night places that have destination charging, especially when it's being expensed.

P.P.S. The reason I need to go every 5 days is because the station refuses to charge the car over 81%. I also need to arrive with more than 20% so I can enable Dog Mode while charging (he can't stay in the hotel), meaning I need to leave with at least 30%.

P.P.P.S. I know the drain by math over 22h periods. I am driving the car most days, but contemplating being stranded at the hotel instead. I'm not waking the car to check charge. I can't even wake the car, that's another issue.

 

[rrolsbe]

I have not been able to verify that a resent firmware update did not enabled the M3 to actively heat the traction battery while parked and unplugged in cold weather. AFAIK, the traction battery several months ago was not heated while parked and unplugged. If the battery is actively warmed is cold weather, that would use considerable power from the battery.​

 

[brkaus]

Can you offer the hotel you are staying at some $$ to use a regular plug (and buy a 10ga extension cord if necessary).

 

[camalaio]

Can you offer the hotel you are staying at some $$ to use a regular plug (and buy a 10ga extension cord if necessary).

I know this seems ridiculous, but there isn't a single plug on the outside of this hotel. Not one.

EDIT: Even if there was, the only parking next to the building is all handicap spaces and they've been full every day I've driven past the spots. For obvious reasons, I can't/won't run a cord across the road and sidewalk.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I know this seems ridiculous, but there isn't a single plug on the outside of this hotel. Not one.

EDIT: Even if there was, the only parking next to the building is all handicap spaces and they've been full every day I've driven past the spots. For obvious reasons, I can't/won't run a cord across the road and sidewalk.

If you leave the car parked without touching it for two days, rather than just one day, how much loss is there from day 1 to day 2? It sounds like you actually left it for 5 days without touching it and lost 40-45%?

Have you turned off Smart Summon Standby Mode? This is a real battery hog and only kicks in (just to maliciously screw you, as I understand it) when you're away from home and work. It ends up being about 180W (4.3kWh/day, or 18.3 2018/2019 AWD rated miles/day) as I recall.

A portion of that loss, at least, is probably due to the battery cooling. But some of it could well be some additional drain. You mention percentages...are you showing rated miles in the car or %? And is the % from the car's app or some other app?

Even in mild climates (60 degrees), for my car, I see about 7 miles of loss the first day after parking, then closer to 2-3 miles a day for each day thereafter.

Aside, not really related: remember, in the cold cycle test that Tesla ran, at 20F, continuously, there was 10% less energy extracted from the battery than at room temp. That's completely separate from the additional likelihood that in those conditions your usage will be higher due to the pumps running, the cabin heat running, etc. Not clear that there will be any battery heating running if you're not plugged in (I have no personal experience in what the actual state of affairs is) - you should be able to determine this by navigating to a nearby Supercharger (if it exists) and seeing whether the noises change - or just knowing what the heating sounds like - or by using SMT or similar.

 

[KenC]

Hey folks,

I know, I know. Another range loss thread. Another vampire drain thread. Please hear me out.

In warmer temps (above 10C, 50F) I had just above 1% vampire loss every 24h period. I was quite happy with this as it seems to be about as good as one can get. Now, I mean these are warmer temps in the garage. It gets cold at home too, but we don't park it outside.

We're in Colorado right now. It's not excessively cold (down to -5C, 23F) but ho boy has that done a number to vampire loss. I'm at 8-9% vampire drain per day right now and I don't know what to do. There is genuinely nowhere to plug in nearby. Dropping it off at the nearest L2 charger is an hour walk. I drove to the nearest CHAdeMO station to top up (this is a 2.5 hour excursion itself), but at this rate I just can't keep up. I need to make that trip every 5 days right now, and that's without using the car at all.

I'm just parking the car for goodness' sake. And losing over 6kWh/day for the privilege of doing so. I'd rather not convert that to dollars.

Is there anything I can do to slow down this cold drain?

P.S. Location was not my choice, I'm on vacation joining my wife while she's here for work. We can't always pick $200/night places that have destination charging, especially when it's being expensed.

P.P.S. The reason I need to go every 5 days is because the station refuses to charge the car over 81%. I also need to arrive with more than 20% so I can enable Dog Mode while charging (he can't stay in the hotel), meaning I need to leave with at least 30%.

P.P.P.S. I know the drain by math over 22h periods. I am driving the car most days, but contemplating being stranded at the hotel instead. I'm not waking the car to check charge. I can't even wake the car, that's another issue.

You must be in the 95th percentile for drain rates. I'm in a cold clime and my Winter average is 0.34miles/hr, which is about 1/3rd the drain rate of yours. I would seriously check to make sure nothing is on that doesn't need to be on, smart summon, sentry, etc. Is some 3rd party app keeping the car awake? Is the car trying to log onto the hotel's wifi?

Then, download some 3rd-party charging apps, like plugshare and see if there are any potential charge locations you've missed.

Btw, 6kWh a day is only $1 on most residential charge rates.

 

[mswlogo]

You didn't mention Sentry status, Summon Standby or Cabin Overtemp options?

 

[justsomeguy]

I have not been able to verify that a resent firmware update did not enabled the M3 to actively heat the traction battery while parked and unplugged in cold weather. AFAIK, the traction battery several months ago was not heated while parked and unplugged. If the battery is actively warmed is cold weather, that would use considerable power from the battery.​

I seriously doubt this is the case. If it were doing this for one you would hear it, and secondly you would lose a lot more than 6kWh/day in -5C like he is talking about.

 

[GtiMart]

If you're using TeslaFi, check if your car falls asleep at all. It should after 1-2 hours of being parked and idle. It sounds like your car is not sleeping. Are you using other apps that give stats? Sometimes these poll too much and prevent sleeping.
Otherwise check the obvious settings that prevent sleeping as others said : sentry mode, smart summon.

Edit: don't open your car door or check the app, that wakes the car up

 

[camalaio]

Today was more of the same if a bit better, 7% lost from 8pm previous day to 5pm today.

If you leave the car parked without touching it for two days, rather than just one day, how much loss is there from day 1 to day 2? It sounds like you actually left it for 5 days without touching it and lost 40-45%?

Have you turned off Smart Summon Standby Mode? This is a real battery hog and only kicks in (just to maliciously screw you, as I understand it) when you're away from home and work. It ends up being about 180W (4.3kWh/day, or 18.3 2018/2019 AWD rated miles/day) as I recall.

A portion of that loss, at least, is probably due to the battery cooling. But some of it could well be some additional drain. You mention percentages...are you showing rated miles in the car or %? And is the % from the car's app or some other app?

Even in mild climates (60 degrees), for my car, I see about 7 miles of loss the first day after parking, then closer to 2-3 miles a day for each day thereafter.

Aside, not really related: remember, in the cold cycle test that Tesla ran, at 20F, continuously, there was 10% less energy extracted from the battery than at room temp. That's completely separate from the additional likelihood that in those conditions your usage will be higher due to the pumps running, the cabin heat running, etc. Not clear that there will be any battery heating running if you're not plugged in (I have no personal experience in what the actual state of affairs is) - you should be able to determine this by navigating to a nearby Supercharger (if it exists) and seeing whether the noises change - or just knowing what the heating sounds like - or by using SMT or similar.

I probably won't be able to leave it for 5 days straight, but a 2 day was about 17% and a couple 22h periods were 8%. It seems more or less linear with time. I unfortunately don't have a lot of data.

I'm using the in-car display of percentage as well as the app (I hope these aren't different). I threw away numbers that had the snowflake, since I had about 3-4% locked out from that (going by the CHAdeMO station I plugged into, which reported 31% when the car was still quite frozen reporting 28%)

I have all the usual suspects turned off. Sorry I didn't enumerate it in my post, but nothing is different in the settings compared to when we're at home with a 1% drain. No sentry mode. No summon standby. A SD card via USB is plugged in, but it was when I was experiencing just over 1% drain as well.

I really doubt it's battery heating, but it's possible. Absolutely no regen is available. I'm familiar with the noises of battery heating (it's how I finally knew for certain that it heats at CHAdeMO and that preconditioning now heats the battery as well in some cases, even when not plugged in), but I haven't noticed it heating even when I specifically thought to check if it was heating.

Thank you for your constant input on battery-related topics.

You must be in the 95th percentile for drain rates. I'm in a cold clime and my Winter average is 0.34miles/hr, which is about 1/3rd the drain rate of yours. I would seriously check to make sure nothing is on that doesn't need to be on, smart summon, sentry, etc. Is some 3rd party app keeping the car awake? Is the car trying to log onto the hotel's wifi?

Then, download some 3rd-party charging apps, like plugshare and see if there are any potential charge locations you've missed.

Btw, 6kWh a day is only $1 on most residential charge rates.

Mentioned above, but nothing I can think of. The usual suspects are off. No third party app/service is being used. The only difference in that regard is that my wife doesn't have the app running on her phone while we're down here (since she's not driving it).

Good call on the WiFi, but nope. It only knows home WiFi.

And I wish I were on residential rates! It works out to about $3 for 6kWh with the CHAdeMO station nearby.

You didn't mention Sentry status, Summon Standby or Cabin Overtemp options?

I hope it doesn't matter, but cabin overheat protection is set to fan only.

If you're using TeslaFi, check if your car falls asleep at all. It should after 1-2 hours of being parked and idle. It sounds like your car is not sleeping. Are you using other apps that give stats? Sometimes these poll too much and prevent sleeping.
Otherwise check the obvious settings that prevent sleeping as others said : sentry mode, smart summon.

Edit: don't open your car door or check the app, that wakes the car up

From the times I've had to drive, I'm almost certain the car is going to sleep. Waking it with the app has been extremely difficult, but once connected it reconnects fine. Not using any third party apps or services, but I'm starting to be tempted by TeslaFi to figure this out.

 

[GtiMart]

TeslaFi has a two week trial, and I think some youtuber has a code to get one month trial. You can see your battery percentage without waking the car up which I like. You could look at some idle and sleep details. It won't tell you everything but it might help. Be sure to set sleep settings per general recommendation.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I'm almost certain the car is going to sleep.

Connectivity issues from the app to your car - is there no cell service?

Once you resolve those issues: The way to tell the car’s sleep status is to use the widget on the iPhone. If it says it is Parked consistently, it is not sleeping. You can’t trust the “last updated” time if it says it is asleep, though.

 

[mswlogo]

Today was more of the same if a bit better, 7% lost from 8pm previous day to 5pm today.



I probably won't be able to leave it for 5 days straight, but a 2 day was about 17% and a couple 22h periods were 8%. It seems more or less linear with time. I unfortunately don't have a lot of data.

I'm using the in-car display of percentage as well as the app (I hope these aren't different). I threw away numbers that had the snowflake, since I had about 3-4% locked out from that (going by the CHAdeMO station I plugged into, which reported 31% when the car was still quite frozen reporting 28%)

I have all the usual suspects turned off. Sorry I didn't enumerate it in my post, but nothing is different in the settings compared to when we're at home with a 1% drain. No sentry mode. No summon standby. A SD card via USB is plugged in, but it was when I was experiencing just over 1% drain as well.

I really doubt it's battery heating, but it's possible. Absolutely no regen is available. I'm familiar with the noises of battery heating (it's how I finally knew for certain that it heats at CHAdeMO and that preconditioning now heats the battery as well in some cases, even when not plugged in), but I haven't noticed it heating even when I specifically thought to check if it was heating.

Thank you for your constant input on battery-related topics.



Mentioned above, but nothing I can think of. The usual suspects are off. No third party app/service is being used. The only difference in that regard is that my wife doesn't have the app running on her phone while we're down here (since she's not driving it).

Good call on the WiFi, but nope. It only knows home WiFi.

And I wish I were on residential rates! It works out to about $3 for 6kWh with the CHAdeMO station nearby.



I hope it doesn't matter, but cabin overheat protection is set to fan only.



From the times I've had to drive, I'm almost certain the car is going to sleep. Waking it with the app has been extremely difficult, but once connected it reconnects fine. Not using any third party apps or services, but I'm starting to be tempted by TeslaFi to figure this out.

Try shutting the cabin overtemp off. Problem is it may wake the car periodically and run the fan to circulate the air to get an accurate temp reading regardless of how warm or cold it is.

You still have not mentioned if you have Summon standby on or not. Or if you are running Sentry or not. Either of those consume a lot.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Cabin overheat only works for 10 hours or so after exiting car, FWIW.

You still have not mentioned if you have Summon standby on or not. Or if you are running Sentry or not. Either of those consume a lot.

FYI:

No summon standby.

No sentry mode.

 

[ZooSean]

Thread owner, I chat with Tesla support on the other day , they told me that losing 25km per night (12hrs) period in a covered garage with temperature sub zero C is perfectly normal. So nothing you can do, even if you take your car to the service they will tell you the same

 

[GtiMart]

Ok, so I looked at TeslaFi to find one night where I parked outside and it was cold (-15C). In 12h, and the car was really asleep, I lost 28.54km of range, or 3.89kWh of energy. I guess it is normal... I had not realized since I'm normally in my garage.

 

[ZooSean]

Ok, so I looked at TeslaFi to find one night where I parked outside and it was cold (-15C). In 12h, and the car was really asleep, I lost 28.54km of range, or 3.89kWh of energy. I guess it is normal... I had not realized since I'm normally in my garage.

You are losing more as you are using TeslaFi.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Ok, so I looked at TeslaFi to find one night where I parked outside and it was cold (-15C). In 12h, and the car was really asleep, I lost 28.54km of range, or 3.89kWh of energy. I guess it is normal... I had not realized since I'm normally in my garage.

Just keep in mind it counts energy loss due to a cold battery which is not really legit.

 

[GtiMart]

On using TeslaFi, I disagree. Sleep settings are configured properly, I am only reporting the sleep period here.

On the "blue" battery slice... Let me list all relevant events.
Park ended at 313km range, battery still warm.
Sleep for 12h, ended at 284km.
Park with precondition for 14 minutes, ends at 272km
Drive for 4.6km, range after drive of 274km.
Yes, there is some freezing/thawing but there is still significant loss in the night. If you assume 50% efficiency for my drive so add back 9km of range from 274 you get 283km. That's still 30km of range lost since previous evening. I assume after my drive my battery didn't have the snowflake anymore. I don't remember for sure but am pretty sure.

 

[KenC]

"but nothing is different in the settings compared to when we're at home with a 1% drain. No sentry mode"

Are you using the location specific setting for Sentry, so you're Home doesn't use sentry, but when you're away, Sentry turns on?