Exciting Inter-City Charging Network Announcement

[doug]

I'd hope such a network would have live updates on status, including usage and expected availability. Perhaps even a reservation system.

 

[neroden]

Installation's one thing but, the recurring maintenance costs and effort could prove annoying?!

And, we are talking literally one Supercharger per site, right? How adequate would that be in areas with high concentrations of EVs? An average gas station can have 4-8 cars filling up in quick time; wouldn't we need something equivalent? Atleast 3-4 Superchargers per site in the urban hotspots?

Remember, these are necessary only for use on road trips!

With only 25,000 Model S on the road as of the end of 2013, how many of them will be on ROAD TRIPS at the same location at any given time? Perhaps the LA-SF corridor will need a couple per location (apparently California is accounting for something like half of sales), but for most of the long-distance routes (I-90, I-80), you really wouldn't expect multiple cars to arrive at the same location simultaneously, at least until a lot more cars are sold. Or if Leafs are using them. Placing them every 100 miles, when road-trippers will probably have the 300-mile-range car, would make it even less likely for two cars to show up at once (and less of a disaster if they did).

 

[VolkerP]

Placing them every 100 miles, when road-trippers will probably have the 300-mile-range car, would make it even less likely for two cars to show up at once

It WILL happen. No question. Then we'll have another thread titled "charge point etiquette" - or way harsher than that :scared:
A reservation system helps only if EVs requesting a charge are DENIED if someone with a reserved time slot is on his way. What if he is delayed? Another dilemma of conflicting interests.

Major highway stations need charge points where 20 vehicle can park & plug in, and 12 can charge simultaneously. The EVSE array transfers charging to the next plugged-in vehicle, as soon as charging stops for one car. To keep the number of parking lots low, charging would be done at the highest possible rate, and there should be a bonus for moving your car when charging is completed.

 

[dpeilow]

That's called power routing and ABB chargers already have the capability.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Actually, that's about right, apart from rural and quasi-rural areas like where I live.

Chargers are best located between cities, not within them. Tesla understands this, which is why the first supercharging station is at Harris Ranch, between SF and LA.

 

[Eberhard]

Maybe the benefit is that the chargers are spaced a little under 300 miles apart?

300miles? 300miles*80% = 240miles, therefore must be below 240miles apart.

 

[WhiteKnight]

GG has a good point. Probably need to double up in some places.

You need the chargers between cities AND within cities IF that city is not your final destination. 500 charging locations covers both.

My understanding was that these chargers would be located at malls (or some kind of interesting destination) where you'd like to stop for 30-60 minutes.

I'm looking for Tesla to announce some kind of deal with Simon Property Group (or similar large mall operator) for Tesla to pay the install and Simon to pay the maintenance, upkeep and possibly the cost of the electricity. It might be worth it to the mall to entice a luxury car owner to browse their stores for 30-60 minutes.

So between Atlanta and Charlotte I expect to see a charger in a nice Greenville, SC mall / upscale shopping area (with a Starbucks, a Barnes & Noble, etc). And then I hope there will be a Tesla Store in Charlotte where I can charge in case I want to keep going to Raleigh-Durham.

 

[dpeilow]

300miles? 300miles*80% = 240miles, therefore must be below 240miles apart.

Don't forget the drop-off in performance of batteries and the real world highway range.

 

[Todd Burch]

Don't forget the drop-off in performance of batteries and the real world highway range.

While all of that was what I originally meant by "a little under 300 miles" (OK, so I guess it's more than a little)...from the discussion I think most of us here think it's more likely that the distance between chargers will be considerably less than even 200 miles.

 

[Doug_G]

While all of that was what I originally meant by "a little under 300 miles" (OK, so I guess it's more than a little)...from the discussion I think most of us here think it's more likely that the distance between chargers will be considerably less than even 200 miles.

Yes, I would consider 200 miles to be the upper limit. Far better to be 100 miles to cover outages. Etc.

 

[Robert.Boston]

And not everyone is getting the 300-mile batteries.

 

[richkae]

If a 90kW supercharger can charge 240 miles per hour - then it can supply 2880 miles in a 12 hour period ( 9AM to 9PM ) - or give 24 perfectly scheduled cars a 1/2 hour charge. To have a 50% chance of arriving there without a car already using the spot - only 12 cars can charge per day - or 6 plug hours per day. ( To put it another way - your average wait time to start charging is ~8 minutes )

Imagine 2 cities, with 1 supercharger midway between, it takes a 1/2 hour charge for a 300 mile Model S to make it from one to the other.
If you do that trip 5 times per year on the weekend ( up on saturday, back on sunday ) - that is 10 charge stops - for a total of 5 hours.
( You may also do it a few times on the weekdays, but there is less contention on those days )

There are 52 weekends in a year, each provides 12 plug hours at 50% utilization ( 6 from each day from core hours 9am to 9pm )
That is 624 plug hours.
Then one supercharger supports 105 cars - with the unrealistic assumption that the distribution of weekend drives across the year is even.

For some resources, the average case is not interesting, it is the heavy use cases that are interesting. Sometimes the worst case is the only case that matters ( imagine big holiday weekends ).

This is a very simple analysis, but it extends to multiple routes out of any city, there are typically only 3 or 4.

Geographic coverage is one thing, but running a charging network may mean adding capacity between big cities with lots of cars - like LA and SF - I could imagine needing dozens of plugs per location along that corridor - before you have locations that cover the entire country.

I do not trust any government agency to do this right. I foresee that paying into a private charging network may be necessary to guarantee the level of service that you want. You are not paying for your electricity - you are paying to guarantee minimal wait times when you want to stop.
Who wants to discover that they can't drive from A to B on labor day weekend because the plugs are all booked? I dont want to have to schedule them. I may never use public charging, and will be very happy to have access to a service that is limited to Tesla cars.

 

[Norbert]

Chargers are best located between cities, not within them. Tesla understands this, which is why the first supercharging station is at Harris Ranch, between SF and LA.

Between cities are often other cities, so as long as there is a nice place with restaurants around etc, close enough to the highway, that often seems to be the best location to me. Nothing against Harris Ranch, though. While I didn't know it by name, I think I've stopped there a number of times, for more than 30 min.

Also, cities are often the transit focal point from and to surrounding rural areas.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Fair enough, Norbert -- certainly in my scheme (posted on the Tesla boards) for covering all of New England with 10 superchargers, six were in cities/towns conveniently located at major crossroads, e.g. Greenfield MA and New Haven CT.

 

[RoadsterWarrior]

Fair enough, Norbert -- certainly in my scheme (posted on the Tesla boards) for covering all of New England with 10 superchargers, six were in cities/towns conveniently located at major crossroads, e.g. Greenfield MA and New Haven CT.

Maybe this company has plans for more Tesla charging points?

It's much nicer now! New HavenOmni Hotel, "Juice Bar" Parking, free charge, well lit!
Easy to get to from the 91/95, just adjacent to the Yale campus, with art museums, great restaurants, bars, a lovely hotel right the (yes, the Omni) , "Occupy New Haven" in the park, and even a multi-screen movie theatre-- a great place to spend 2 hours, or a day! We made friends with some Yale surgeons on Friday and came back on Sunday for pizza and a tour of the beautiful new Yale Cancer Center!

155 Temple St, New Haven, under the Omni Hotel.

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We look forward to you visiting us again.

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[W.Petefish]

I heard during the Oct. 1st event that they will be in between major cities along major corridors. By that logic and using the Texas area as an example, between Houston and Dallas. Also using that same logic, there will be 4 superchargers in Texas or at least locations. I think that they are going to be putting them in gradually along most of the major interstates.