Exclusive: GM will build Chevy Bolt in Michigan in late 2016

[JST]

It will be interesting to see where Model 3 comes in price wise. Remember the Model S was advertised to come in "under $50,000" which it barely did for a brief period of time.

This. My guess is that IF the Model 3 comes in below 40K (pre-rebate), it will do so only briefly--we've seen price hikes on both the Roadster and the Model S, and I have no reason to think the Model 3 will be any different.

Then factor in Tesla's no-haggle model v. GM's "stuff the trunk full of cash" approach, and I bet the real transaction prices will be 10K or more different.

 

[RobStark]

This. My guess is that IF the Model 3 comes in below 40K (pre-rebate), it will do so only briefly--we've seen price hikes on both the Roadster and the Model S, and I have no reason to think the Model 3 will be any different.

1) Gigafactory

2) Tesla is now a 10k employee company that will have 3 cars under its belt when Model 3 debuts. Experience gives them better tools to project cost and therefore price. No longer a startup with a handful of software guys from Silicon Valley.

3) Model S was projected to start at under $50k with no range projection. Model 3 has been publicly targeted at 200 mile range and $35k pre rebate. No gimped 120 mile range car to make the $35k price target. No quickly cancelled gimped model.


BTW Yes, the Model 3 will be far superior to Bolt or whatever they end up call the Gama platform Chevy Sonic BEV conversion. Forcing GM to put money on the hood or for dealers to slash the MSRP.

 

[renim]

1) Gigafactory

2) Tesla is now a 10k employee company that will have 3 cars under its belt when Model 3 debuts. Experience gives them better tools to project cost and therefore price. No longer a startup with a handful of software guys from Silicon Valley.

3) Model S was projected to start at under $50k with no range projection. Model 3 has been publicly targeted at 200 mile range and $35k pre rebate. No gimped 120 mile range car to make the $35k price target. No quickly cancelled gimped model.


BTW Yes, the Model 3 will be far superior to Bolt or whatever they end up call the Gama platform Chevy Sonic BEV conversion. Forcing GM to put money on the hood or for dealers to slash the MSRP.

the GM Bolt cost will probably benefit from a cheaper battery chemistry. Ni is about 7 x more expensive than Mn
GM Bolt cost will also benefit from having instant scale from the Gama platform

does anyone really think a GM Sonic costs more than a BMW 3 series?

GM Bolt is not a competitor to Tesla, GM Bolt is a competitor to BMW i3.

repeat GM Bolt is a competitor to BMW i3

 

[techmaven]

the GM Bolt cost will probably benefit from a cheaper battery chemistry. Ni is about 7 x more expensive than Mn

Isn't it Nickel Manganese Cobalt, LiNiMnCoO2 (NMC) versus Nickel Cobalt Aluminum, LiNiCoAlO2 (NCA)? Aluminum is cheaper than manganese. Or are you comparing against the older LMO chemistry? (LiMn2O4) If so, they are going to nickel, not away from it.

 

[Breezy]

BTW Yes, the Model 3 will be far superior to Bolt or whatever they end up call the Gama platform Chevy Sonic BEV conversion.

It's not a "conversion." It's on the next gen Gamma platform which has been designed for this application among others.

Hopefully, demand will be so strong that neither Tesla nor GM will be able to keep up.

 

[renim]

Isn't it Nickel Manganese Cobalt, LiNiMnCoO2 (NMC) versus Nickel Cobalt Aluminum, LiNiCoAlO2 (NCA)? Aluminum is cheaper than manganese. Or are you comparing against the older LMO chemistry? (LiMn2O4) If so, they are going to nickel, not away from it.

LG is expert in LiMn2O4, NMC , and Li rich Mn rich cathode (of envia fame)

Bolt could be any of those, the first 2 are often blended together anyway.

NCA is an excellent cathode, doesn't mean its also generally the most expensive. (despite Ni being cheaper than Co)


I don't see much of a future for straight NMC 333 except as a blending additive for other cathodes.
other may find NMC 611 to be suitable, but chemically its really closer to NCA than NMC 333.

my bet would be that GM is focusing on LiMn2O4 or Li rich Mn rich cathode cathode for then main energy portion with some NMC added for increased power. Cost and safety being prime reasons.

if it is Li rich Mn rich cathode, I don't expect to be cheap, but I do expect it would inaugurate the second generation of li ion battery.

 

[stopcrazypp]

LG is expert in LiMn2O4, NMC , and Li rich Mn rich cathode (of envia fame)

Bolt could be any of those, the first 2 are often blended together anyway.

Volt already blends this (lots of manganese-spinel, very little NMC). The density of it is not enough to enable at 200 mile car with a reasonable battery pack size (18.4kWh in Volt, best estimate of 50kWh for 200 miles means 2.7x pack size). It'll have to be much closer to pure NMC and a little spinel. LG has said they are targeting 200Wh/kg.

 

[mknox]

3) Model S was projected to start at under $50k with no range projection.

Actually, Model S was originally announce with a 300 mile range. When the EPA rating of 265 miles came out, the concept of Ideal (300 miles) and Rated (265 miles) was devised.

 

[robaross]

At the Chicago show GM announced production in 2018.

 

[Breezy]

No they didn't. They just confirmed that it will go into production.

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2015/feb/chicago/0212-bolt-ev.html

 

[RobStark]

Actually, Model S was originally announce with a 300 mile range. When the EPA rating of 265 miles came out, the concept of Ideal (300 miles) and Rated (265 miles) was devised.

Up to 300 miles. Meaning top spec. No designated number for Model S 40. Model 3 base has a designated minimum 200 miles.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not a "conversion." It's on the next gen Gamma platform which has been designed for this application among others.

That is GM propaganda. The Gamma platform is designed for the 1M plus ICEv based on it and then a conversion is made for the 25k-30k expected sales of the BEV version.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Actually, Model S was originally announce with a 300 mile range. When the EPA rating of 265 miles came out, the concept of Ideal (300 miles) and Rated (265 miles) was devised.

The 300 miles was with the old EPA 2-cycle test rather than the newer, more challenging, 5-cycle test. I think Tesla handled that in a perfectly acceptable way. Changes to the official testing is beyond Tesla's control.

The Model 3 must have a 200+ mile range on the 5-cycle test, or Tesla screwed up.

 

[Trev Page]

How big is it? Volt sized? Seat 5 + luggage or not really. How about 4 + luggage?

I too was at the Toronto car show and took some pictures of the Bolt concept. Size-wise think of the GM Trax, just a bit lower to the ground.

Surprisingly I haven't seen anyone take pictures of the undersize at the Detroit show so I tried looking underneath in Toronto and due to the high barriers around the Bolt I wasn't able to see the underside. I did however see a couple of electrical shutoff switches in the passenger wheel well Doubtless this car has just a small motor in it with a couple of car batteries in it for showroom mobility and that's it. I took some pictures of it, especially the interior. Not keen on the interior of the car, that whole Volt capacitance button thing is horrible and they really should have a larger screen in there. I know it's a concept, GM will surely not produce this car as displayed. I'm not a fan of GM products but my recent trip to Florida and renting a Sonic has proven to me that GM can make a decent econobox for $17K. I'd say the Bolt will likely have the build quality as the Sonic and the rest of the $35K deficit will be in the batteries so don't expect much compared to a Model 3.

I also spent a lot of time in the BMW booth looking at the i3. I personally don't mind the design. It's quirky to some but the interior is fantastic. BMW got that right. The blend of materials and minimalism really makes for quite a large interior volume. The build quality, as all BMWs are, is exceptional. Too bad it's shackled by such a low range and high price ($55K+ CAD).

For me, the Superchargers is the magic potion that still sways me to Tesla. The Bolt is an unknown at the moment and I really do like the i3 design but if I'm going to spend $55K on an EV I don't want just a city car, I need something I can *travel* in. If the i3 had a 320Km (200 mile) battery and Supercharger access I'd consider it.

 

[flankspeed8]

this is where one of those selfie sticks may come in handy. Able to maneuver underneath the car

 

[JST]

Surprisingly I haven't seen anyone take pictures of the undersize at the Detroit show so I tried looking underneath in Toronto and due to the high barriers around the Bolt I wasn't able to see the underside.

I tried to get an underneath shot in Detroit, but it didn't really show much.

 

[pmadflyer]

has anyone else seen the triangle on the windshield of the Bolt for a front facing camera yet?

 

[stopcrazypp]

I don't think there's a whole lot of point to trying to see what's under the concept. GM has pretty much indicated the concept has little to do with the car they are going to produce (except for a very general direction; the final car might not even be called a Bolt, because of feedback about confusion with the Volt name). The concept was designed by a studio in Australia. GM will likely unveil a production design some time this year if they are aiming for a late 2016 launch date.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

I tried to get an underneath shot in Detroit, but it didn't really show much.

What's with the crazy letter "A" tread pattern on the tires? Does anyone actually manufacture tires like that?

Of all the things on that car, those are the most futuristic looking to my eye.

 

[WarpedOne]

What's with the crazy letter "A" tread pattern on the tires?

Designer gimmicks.

Does anyone actually manufacture tires like that?

No, no grip whatsoever.

 

[EVNow]

I don't think there's a whole lot of point to trying to see what's under the concept. GM has pretty much indicated the concept has little to do with the car they are going to produce (except for a very general direction; the final car might not even be called a Bolt, because of feedback about confusion with the Volt name). The concept was designed by a studio in Australia. GM will likely unveil a production design some time this year if they are aiming for a late 2016 launch date.

SAE article says the exterior is production ready - interior will change.