.. provided the manufacturer is also allowed to be one of the sellers. Shutting out the manufacturer is unhealthy.
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Executive Escalation - Hoax and a Joke
- Thread starter haasnoot
- Start date
.. provided the manufacturer is also allowed to be one of the sellers. Shutting out the manufacturer is unhealthy.
While I in principle do not oppose it, the existing framework (where present) typically excludes manufacturers since they are in position to undercut all others and drive them out of business.
Tesla is extremely bureaucratic, I find. They do not empower their staff, instead everything needs to be escalated internally somewhere far away causing rigidity and slowness as well as generally losing common sense and lessening ability to trust Tesla's word (because the front-line may and often is overruled later by someone or some policy far away).
Tesla's no "deals" sales model, no dealerships model and the rigid CPO system are examples of this in addition to the service side.
Tesla is giant bureaucracy...
Tesla's no "deals" sales model, no dealerships model and the rigid CPO system are examples of this in addition to the service side.
Tesla is giant bureaucracy...
I think what you described is more of an Apple model as in the cartoon below depicting different styles of org models, note how you need to tweet Elon to get your problems resolved for example:
Any company that literally has executives personally handling customer service cases is in desperate need of better executives.
(But I agree customer service needs to be improved...after they fix the fraud problem)
(But I agree customer service needs to be improved...after they fix the fraud problem)
Just throwing my 2 cents in here.....
Our customer service issues were solved when I put in a call to Lucid Motors to educate them on the mistakes of Tesla's service so that they would not replicate their mistakes in their own business model. Lucid has many former Tesla people working for them. The next thing I knew, hubby and I were on the phone with a 3-way conversation between Tesla corporate honchos, our local head honchos, and us. Issues got resolved. Sad it had to be escalated to that level to effect positive action.
Car - a 10+
Tesla service and effectiveness - a 2-
Our customer service issues were solved when I put in a call to Lucid Motors to educate them on the mistakes of Tesla's service so that they would not replicate their mistakes in their own business model. Lucid has many former Tesla people working for them. The next thing I knew, hubby and I were on the phone with a 3-way conversation between Tesla corporate honchos, our local head honchos, and us. Issues got resolved. Sad it had to be escalated to that level to effect positive action.
Car - a 10+
Tesla service and effectiveness - a 2-
Mobster
Member
to: verygreen......thanks! hahahaha.....one of the best posts I have ever seen. (Fits the learning VARK model which identifies four primary types of learning---- paraphrased.... seeing, hearing, reading, experiencing). I like the reading and seeing examples myself! These are great charts verygreen.
I'm glad someone got off of the"dealership" subject and back to comments on the OP (even though I really understand having a horrid experience at my Tesla dealership...oh, excuse me ..."Tesla Store"). If a thread does not exist, maybe one should be started for the "dealership" or "Tesla Store" opinions!
I also have some "experiencing" level learning on what the OP discussed and additionally can understand what northWETwa posted as I live in the same area and have had to get "honchos" (great term) involved in the same way. I am not as passionate about the subject as the OP, but it really is silly (the new option to escalate...leading to obvious expectations). I won't get into an argument about "executive" definitions because in application (real business life) it varies so wildly! A "Vice President" in the company I worked for had many thousands of people working for him/her and had incredible decision making powers. On the other hand, my "Harvard grad" son in law has worked for a number of large pharmaceutical companies --always with VP or above-- and never had more that a couple of "assistants" working with him along with almost zero decision making power. So an "executive" to one person might be a tomato to another (or... to-MA-to)! But the implications are clear considering the spin and the expectations an average customer would have.
I had a couple of issues and used the new "feature". I immediately got an email back with a "Hi, I am Farbus Foonman." (if you can't tell, I made that name up to protect the innocent/guilty!). "I will be your point of contact, this is in escalation, and you will have your answers by Monday." The signature block was impressive "Farbus Foonman|Office of the President" Then....silence.....weeks of silence (insert sounds of crickets)....silence. I replied asking what happened to Monday and in any case has any progress been made? Again...time passes...crickets. So I emailed the "honcho" who helped me in the past and she emailed me the next day with the two answers resolving my issues (thanks northWETwa for the very descriptive "honcho" term applied to the real world versus expectations!)
So I understand what OP was pointing out. A lot of people are yelling "fraud" for a number of Tesla tactics. I am not privy to inside information so cannot judge if outright fraud is intended on ANY of these marketing tactics.
Anyway, thanks to northWETwa for sharing the "honchos" story, along with Verygreen for the visual help charts!
I'm glad someone got off of the"dealership" subject and back to comments on the OP (even though I really understand having a horrid experience at my Tesla dealership...oh, excuse me ..."Tesla Store"). If a thread does not exist, maybe one should be started for the "dealership" or "Tesla Store" opinions!
I also have some "experiencing" level learning on what the OP discussed and additionally can understand what northWETwa posted as I live in the same area and have had to get "honchos" (great term) involved in the same way. I am not as passionate about the subject as the OP, but it really is silly (the new option to escalate...leading to obvious expectations). I won't get into an argument about "executive" definitions because in application (real business life) it varies so wildly! A "Vice President" in the company I worked for had many thousands of people working for him/her and had incredible decision making powers. On the other hand, my "Harvard grad" son in law has worked for a number of large pharmaceutical companies --always with VP or above-- and never had more that a couple of "assistants" working with him along with almost zero decision making power. So an "executive" to one person might be a tomato to another (or... to-MA-to)! But the implications are clear considering the spin and the expectations an average customer would have.
I had a couple of issues and used the new "feature". I immediately got an email back with a "Hi, I am Farbus Foonman." (if you can't tell, I made that name up to protect the innocent/guilty!). "I will be your point of contact, this is in escalation, and you will have your answers by Monday." The signature block was impressive "Farbus Foonman|Office of the President" Then....silence.....weeks of silence (insert sounds of crickets)....silence. I replied asking what happened to Monday and in any case has any progress been made? Again...time passes...crickets. So I emailed the "honcho" who helped me in the past and she emailed me the next day with the two answers resolving my issues (thanks northWETwa for the very descriptive "honcho" term applied to the real world versus expectations!)
So I understand what OP was pointing out. A lot of people are yelling "fraud" for a number of Tesla tactics. I am not privy to inside information so cannot judge if outright fraud is intended on ANY of these marketing tactics.
Anyway, thanks to northWETwa for sharing the "honchos" story, along with Verygreen for the visual help charts!
I think what you described is more of an Apple model as in the cartoon below depicting different styles of org models, note how you need to tweet Elon to get your problems resolved for example:
individual dealerships can be fine.. probably more accurately, individual salesmen can be great.. .it's the system that is messed up, and makes the whole car buying experience potentially stressful
is "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" still a thing?
tesla's competition is other EV cars, and ice cars, from other manufacturers. the market will decide if what tesla is doing is working... so far, it seems like it is... tesla owners are generally happy, and willing to buy again.
if the dealership model was better, and the direct sales model harms the consumer, then tesla wouldn't be where they are today.
i guess the question is: will they still be there with model 3 rollout? will there be consumer harm? monopoly behavior? will tesla's various shortcomings on the customer service end hurt them, and can they adjust?
i feel the prices will be stable. if the rest of the car world catches up and helps to provide competition and accelerate cost parity, then tesla will have to adjust. i think for a startup, the customer service aspect is their weak point, but i also see continual work to improve it, individual stories aside. and my personal experience has been spot on, btw. /knockonwood
Haasnoot's points about poor customer service mimic my experiences at Tesla. I think my model S is high on the 10 point scale, but Tesla's customer service (in sales, delivery, vehicle service and technical support) rates about a 1 or 2 overall. I find this forum very helpful and it has been a constant source of information. But I disagree with some of the comments. For example, if someone says several things in their post and one of them is incorrect, that does NOT necessarily invalidate the other comments. Another example, if someone had excellent service at some place and time, it does not mean that someone else (or many someone elses) did not receive exceedingly poor service.
Again - I agree with Haasnoot. Tesla cannot fix a problem that it doesn't know exists. If you have had excellent service, great, tell Tesla. But if you have not, please tell Tesla.
One commenter requested some examples. Here is a SMALL subset of my experiences.
Sales - I need to understand what I plan to purchase, so I ask many questions. One sales rep refused to answer my questions. He informed me that it was a good car, and I should just buy it. My questions were unnecessary.
Sales - I was considering purchasing an S60 and was heading for the deadline of availability. I needed questions answered to make my decision and I had just over a week to make my decision. The sales location told me that I had to deal with "my" sales rep. The rep was away the day I phoned. I was told the rep would return the next day. Each day for the next 5 days I was told the rep would return tomorrow. After a week I drove to the location (difficult for me since I'm disabled) to try to speak to anyone. The rep was there. I asked where she was for the past week. Her reply "I told you before I left, it was my birthday." So she took a week off to celebrate her birthday - and appeared not to have informed her employers.
Delivery / Sales - after my purchase the delivery specialist left a message on my home phone with his name and phone number. Then he and the sales rep proceeded to ignore my phone calls and emails for over four weeks. After i complained to California I received an email from my sales rep informing me "I am sorry that you have not received any support. I believe that I have given you 100% of my time and attention" because twice in the previous 4 weeks she had phoned me and received a "dial tone". My phone was working during those four weeks, as was my email.
Delivery / Service - At my delivery there were a few small repairs required (one part that needed to be replaced) and my orientation needed to be rescheduled because the next customer was scheduled for their delivery. I agreed to postpone my repairs and orientation for 2-4 weeks, because they were busy delivering at quarter end. The delivery specialist said he would phone me as soon as the part arrived to schedule the repairs and the orientation. Four weeks later I started to contact delivery and service. With a great deal of effort, time, phone calls and emails on my part (over two weeks), it eventually became clear that my delivery specialist had decided that since the car was delivered, I was now the responsibility of service. Service did not know of the delivery spec's promises. It eventually got resolved, with exceedingly poor service from many Tesla sales, delivery and service staff.
Sales / Delivery / Technical support / Service - I had numerous questions before and after purchase of my car. I spoke to staff in both the US and Canada over several months. Most could not answer my questions. I consistently obtained various answers (often conflicting) to the same questions. My suspicion is that the Tesla staff answering the phones do not have product knowledge and exceedingly poor support systems in place.
The consistency of poor product knowledge and service is a problem of Tesla, not the individuals who are not getting proper training or support systems to help them do their job. Tesla staff need to be trained in communication skills, specifically "active listening" because they cannot answer a question until they understand the question. They also need to be trained in sales skills, which is basic communication between different individual personalities. They need to have better product knowledge and software systems in place help them provide information to customers and do their jobs more efficiently and correctly. I suspect that when I phoned California tech support, their answer to my question was based on their entry in the help desk software. If I phoned three times with the identical question, I would get yes, no or sometimes, depending on how they interpreted and typed my question. The software and the training need to prevent such problems. On one occasion I read the owners manual with a service rep and he informed me that the manual and I were wrong. His experience with hundreds of cars proved that the relative speed for speed assist described in the owners manual is only used for the start speed of traffic aware cruise control. Help. How do you deal with a Tesla service staff member that refuses to understand the owners manual?
Again - I agree with Haasnoot. Tesla cannot fix a problem that it doesn't know exists. If you have had excellent service, great, tell Tesla. But if you have not, please tell Tesla.
Below is a copy of an email I sent to Toronto and California a few weeks ago:
Subject: Feedback on my experiences with Tesla in 2017
Feedback on my experiences with Tesla in 2017 - I am very pleased with my Tesla Model S. It has truly changed my life because now (with traffic aware cruise control), I will be able to drive as long, or as far, as I did before my injury. Some of my Tesla experiences took up a great deal of my time and a great deal of my effort, both before and after purchase, I’m hoping feedback to Tesla will improve the Customer experience for other owners.
Wi-Fi Setup
Every time I started my new car, a large pop-up appeared asking me whether I wanted to set up wi-fi now or later. It did not offer the option to refuse to set up wi-fi. This was a minor nuisance. I had spoken to several Tesla people and did not get a resolution. I requested that Tesla service set up their wi-fi on my car, in hopes that would stop the annoying pop-up. At my first service appointment, a young man quickly did something on the screen, and closed the pop-up that appeared before I could see it. He said the problem was solved. I asked him to show me what he had done. He showed me that he had turned off the wi-fi. The wi-fi off pop-up he closed did not reappear because the wi-fi was already off. He told me it was not necessary to set up their wi-fi on my car. The next morning when I started my car, the wi-fi pop-up appeared again. I turned off the wi-fi as he had shown me. The pop-up that he had quickly closed, was now displayed. It clearly stated that wi-fi was only off until the car was restarted. So this issue had not been resolved. Subsequently I was at Tesla and asked someone to set up their wi-fi on my car. That did solve the problem. I suggest you provide the customer with a third option to say NO. Or you provide some information so that customers understand that setting one wi-fi will stop the pop-up screen. Although the issue itself was a minor nuisance, the time and effort on my part to attempt to resolve the issue was a substantial problem. It took much too much time and effort on my part to resolve. No-one at Tesla provided a solution that resolved the issue. (A – see suggestions table below)
Traffic Aware Cruise Control
I purchased the Tesla Model S for the traffic aware cruise control (tacc). The tacc feature allows me to drive as long and far as I had before my injury. During sales and delivery, no-one mentioned to me that the tacc would be unavailable after delivery until the cameras had completed calibration. After delivery, when I discovered the message on the instrument panel and contacted Tesla, I was informed that the feature would start after about 100 kilometres of driving. The tacc started at much more. When I arrived for my first service appointment one young man informed me that the cameras required one longer drive to calibrate. I should have been given this information on or before delivery. I had been restricting my driving to short trips, because I didn’t have the tacc working. So I lost over three weeks of using tacc. Had I known, I would have driven in the manner that would have triggered the feature sooner. I suggest this information be conveyed to your customers before or during delivery. (B)
In each Tesla I test drove, the traffic aware cruise control behaved as described in the owners’ manual – the start speed of tacc was the current speed of the car. In my previous car (Lexus) the cruise control also started at the current speed. In my new Tesla, the first time I turned on tacc, I was shocked when the car lurched forward and I had to slam on the brakes. The small greyed numbers made reading the tacc start speed difficult, so I had not been prepared for the sudden acceleration. I quickly learned that the start speed of the tacc in my car was always much higher than my current speed – contrary to the owner’s manual. I spoke to many Tesla staff trying to understand the problem, but got no clear replies. The Tesla staff kept trying to teach me the basics of how tacc worked, but I knew how it worked. The consistent lack of listening skills across multiple Tesla staff was inexcusable. I was trying to focus on the start speed, not basic instructions on how to use the feature. Prior to my first service appointment, one person at Tesla, understood my issue and suggested, in settings, I reduce the relative speed assist warning number, to reduce the start speed of the tacc. His suggestion sounded odd to me, but it worked as a temporary measure. When I set the value to -30, the start speed of the tacc was an acceptable 30 km. But I wanted the car to warn me when my relative speed was 10 km over the speed limit, not 30 km under, so this was a temporary solution. I could not fathom why you would use one field for two completely different features. I assumed this was a temporary fix on the part of Tesla. Several of the Tesla staff informed me that the field was only used to set the initial start speed of the tacc and had nothing to do with the speed limit offset. In one case I showed the Owners manual speed limit offset information to a Tesla service technician. He adamantly informed me that the offset was ONLY for tacc start speed, not for speed limit offset, and that I was completely misunderstanding the owners’ manual. (C )
I had been told that a software fix was available for the tacc start speed problem and it would be installed before I left my first service appointment at Tesla. When I arrived for the appointment, I was told by someone else that the fix had not yet been released. A third person told me that they downloaded a software upgrade to my car. He asked I install it when I get home. He said it might contain the fix, but they were not certain. He asked I contact Tesla if the problem is not resolved. I installed the software upgrade when I got home, but it did not fix the problem. (D)
When I phoned Tesla to inform them that the software download did not fix the problem, Tesla eventually told me to bring my car in again and they would investigate the problem in more detail, because they didn’t know the cause and could not provide a software fix. I had been trying, unsuccessfully, to get a resolution to this issue by speaking to other Tesla staff. The night before the second service appointment I phoned California tech support and x answered. He was the first person at Tesla who immediately understood the tacc start speed issue. He also answered all my remaining unanswered questions. I was desperate to have him resolve the tacc start speed issue over the phone because I did not want to take my car to Tesla service. After so many weeks of poor service, I had little confidence in the Tesla service staff. Unfortunately, x strongly suggested I take my car to Tesla. At Tesla the next day, I eventually spoke with someone who started to understand my issue. We displayed the in-car owners manual and I discovered that I could start tacc at the current speed by pushing the lever down. This was an acceptable solution to my problem, because I could have the speed assist warn me at relative +10 kilometres, AND have the start speed of the tacc match the current speed of the car. After the appointment I reviewed my copy of the 8.0 Owners manual and discovered that it was different from the version in my car. I also discovered that 8.0 was the latest manual version. So I sat in the car and read the tacc section of the owners’ manual. I discovered that the tacc “problem” I’d had for weeks, was not a problem at all, but an intentional design feature. Not one Tesla staff I spoke with over many weeks had told me this. I strongly disagree with this design. The speed assist relative offset should be a separate value from the start speed of the traffic aware cruise control. For example, if I wish to be warned of speeding at a relative speed of 10 kilometres over the speed limit, I should not have my tacc start at 10 kilometres over the speed limit. Then the car default is forcing me to break the law. I can understand offering the option to either trigger tacc at the current speed, or at the speed limit, or at an offset to the speed limit. But absolutely not the offset used for a different feature – speed assist. I assume this new version of the owners’ manual was downloaded with one of the software updates. But I was not aware that tacc had changed because it was not mentioned in the software documentation. It seems Tesla expects me to re-read the owners manual with every software update and compare the entire manual to the previous version, to hunt for any changes. This is not a very user friendly approach. For safety and support, the driver must be made aware of changes to the car, preferably prior to the actual change, or at least at the same time. (E)
Interactions with Tesla staff
I like to understand products I purchase and ask more questions than most people. With the Model S I asked many questions prior to and after my purchase. My experiences with Tesla staff were almost always terrible. I interacted with many staff over many months. They gave me conflicting information, did not have the correct information, did not know, did not care to find out, or did not return phone calls or respond to emails. My impression was that the staff were poorly trained in product knowledge and customer interaction, and poorly supported with both Tesla business processes and technology.
I reviewed the Tesla web pages (Canadian and US), the owners manual and other documentation provided through the Tesla web pages, as well as the Tesla owners forums, and other information on the web. The web pages and the owners’ manual provide a good general overview, but not detailed information. The three software updates I’ve downloaded each had minimal documentation. The owners’ forums and the general web are not good sources for correct technical information.
The owners’ forum is an excellent place for owners to speak to one another, but a poor place for owners to find out correct detailed technical information. I suggest that Tesla provide a Tesla web forum in which owners can submit questions, but ONLY knowledgeable Tesla staff can respond. If owners had a single source of reliable information, they could get answers more efficiently than the months I spent talking to multiple Tesla staff and being frustrated. In addition, Tesla staff would not have to respond as often to identical questions from multiple owners. I think Tesla staff should also be able to ask questions in this forum. This would allow them to have correct information and a single source of correct information. Perhaps a separate thread could list the detailed information about software updates prior to (or concurrent with) the update being available for download. The questions and answers posed by Tesla staff should also be available to owners. You could set up separate sections e.g. by geography, or vehicle model, or software version. I suspect the savings in Tesla time and money, and the increase in customer satisfaction would be substantial. (F)
When I was researching the web to decide if I should purchase a Tesla, I found a website where owners were submitting requests for changes to Tesla vehicles. I think Tesla prioritized each request with a “simplicity of implementation” and “importance” rating. If the requests were implemented, Tesla updated the request entry. Now I cannot find that website. I thought it was an excellent idea. I hope Tesla offers such a website, in addition to (but separate from) the questions web forum that I described above. (G)
A few Tesla staff gave me consistently excellent service. They had excellent listening skills, outstanding product knowledge and good communication skills. I list the four names here...
Suggestions:
A B C D E F Provide a forum for Customers to get technical questions answered easily, and within hours rather than months.
A B C D E F Provide a forum for Tesla employees who interface with Customers to get technical questions answered correctly and quickly.
A B C D E F Design your business processes with your customers in mind. The best process design technique I used was called Line of Visibility Engineering Methodology. It was designed by IBM but was available for anyone to use free of charge.
A B C D E F Train your staff in communications skills, especially “active listening”. This should be required for all staff, whether they deal with customer or not.
A B C D E F Train your staff in sales skills. This should be required for all staff that deal with customers, but would be useful for all staff. When I worked in sales we were taught amiable/analytic/expressive/driver techniques.
A C D E F Provide a way for customers to escalate lack of support if the normal procedures are not working.
B C D E F Provide a forum to get technical information easily and quickly – i.e. to find out information that you didn’t know enough about to even ask a question e.g. calibration requirements of tacc cameras
C G Make the tacc start speed larger and easier to read.
E Ensure that all feature defaults in your vehicles abide by local laws.
E Ensure that your designs are correct. You should not use one data entry field for two different purposes.
E Provide complete and detailed information on software updates in an easily accessible location, prior to or concurrent with the installation of the update.
A B C D E F Provide a Tesla web forum for owners to ask technical questions which would be answered by Tesla
G Provide a (separate) web forum for owners to request new or changed features.
Thank you for the opportunity to provide feedback.
Again - I agree with Haasnoot. Tesla cannot fix a problem that it doesn't know exists. If you have had excellent service, great, tell Tesla. But if you have not, please tell Tesla.
One commenter requested some examples. Here is a SMALL subset of my experiences.
Sales - I need to understand what I plan to purchase, so I ask many questions. One sales rep refused to answer my questions. He informed me that it was a good car, and I should just buy it. My questions were unnecessary.
Sales - I was considering purchasing an S60 and was heading for the deadline of availability. I needed questions answered to make my decision and I had just over a week to make my decision. The sales location told me that I had to deal with "my" sales rep. The rep was away the day I phoned. I was told the rep would return the next day. Each day for the next 5 days I was told the rep would return tomorrow. After a week I drove to the location (difficult for me since I'm disabled) to try to speak to anyone. The rep was there. I asked where she was for the past week. Her reply "I told you before I left, it was my birthday." So she took a week off to celebrate her birthday - and appeared not to have informed her employers.
Delivery / Sales - after my purchase the delivery specialist left a message on my home phone with his name and phone number. Then he and the sales rep proceeded to ignore my phone calls and emails for over four weeks. After i complained to California I received an email from my sales rep informing me "I am sorry that you have not received any support. I believe that I have given you 100% of my time and attention" because twice in the previous 4 weeks she had phoned me and received a "dial tone". My phone was working during those four weeks, as was my email.
Delivery / Service - At my delivery there were a few small repairs required (one part that needed to be replaced) and my orientation needed to be rescheduled because the next customer was scheduled for their delivery. I agreed to postpone my repairs and orientation for 2-4 weeks, because they were busy delivering at quarter end. The delivery specialist said he would phone me as soon as the part arrived to schedule the repairs and the orientation. Four weeks later I started to contact delivery and service. With a great deal of effort, time, phone calls and emails on my part (over two weeks), it eventually became clear that my delivery specialist had decided that since the car was delivered, I was now the responsibility of service. Service did not know of the delivery spec's promises. It eventually got resolved, with exceedingly poor service from many Tesla sales, delivery and service staff.
Sales / Delivery / Technical support / Service - I had numerous questions before and after purchase of my car. I spoke to staff in both the US and Canada over several months. Most could not answer my questions. I consistently obtained various answers (often conflicting) to the same questions. My suspicion is that the Tesla staff answering the phones do not have product knowledge and exceedingly poor support systems in place.
The consistency of poor product knowledge and service is a problem of Tesla, not the individuals who are not getting proper training or support systems to help them do their job. Tesla staff need to be trained in communication skills, specifically "active listening" because they cannot answer a question until they understand the question. They also need to be trained in sales skills, which is basic communication between different individual personalities. They need to have better product knowledge and software systems in place help them provide information to customers and do their jobs more efficiently and correctly. I suspect that when I phoned California tech support, their answer to my question was based on their entry in the help desk software. If I phoned three times with the identical question, I would get yes, no or sometimes, depending on how they interpreted and typed my question. The software and the training need to prevent such problems. On one occasion I read the owners manual with a service rep and he informed me that the manual and I were wrong. His experience with hundreds of cars proved that the relative speed for speed assist described in the owners manual is only used for the start speed of traffic aware cruise control. Help. How do you deal with a Tesla service staff member that refuses to understand the owners manual?
Again - I agree with Haasnoot. Tesla cannot fix a problem that it doesn't know exists. If you have had excellent service, great, tell Tesla. But if you have not, please tell Tesla.
Below is a copy of an email I sent to Toronto and California a few weeks ago:
Subject: Feedback on my experiences with Tesla in 2017
Feedback on my experiences with Tesla in 2017 - I am very pleased with my Tesla Model S. It has truly changed my life because now (with traffic aware cruise control), I will be able to drive as long, or as far, as I did before my injury. Some of my Tesla experiences took up a great deal of my time and a great deal of my effort, both before and after purchase, I’m hoping feedback to Tesla will improve the Customer experience for other owners.
Wi-Fi Setup
Every time I started my new car, a large pop-up appeared asking me whether I wanted to set up wi-fi now or later. It did not offer the option to refuse to set up wi-fi. This was a minor nuisance. I had spoken to several Tesla people and did not get a resolution. I requested that Tesla service set up their wi-fi on my car, in hopes that would stop the annoying pop-up. At my first service appointment, a young man quickly did something on the screen, and closed the pop-up that appeared before I could see it. He said the problem was solved. I asked him to show me what he had done. He showed me that he had turned off the wi-fi. The wi-fi off pop-up he closed did not reappear because the wi-fi was already off. He told me it was not necessary to set up their wi-fi on my car. The next morning when I started my car, the wi-fi pop-up appeared again. I turned off the wi-fi as he had shown me. The pop-up that he had quickly closed, was now displayed. It clearly stated that wi-fi was only off until the car was restarted. So this issue had not been resolved. Subsequently I was at Tesla and asked someone to set up their wi-fi on my car. That did solve the problem. I suggest you provide the customer with a third option to say NO. Or you provide some information so that customers understand that setting one wi-fi will stop the pop-up screen. Although the issue itself was a minor nuisance, the time and effort on my part to attempt to resolve the issue was a substantial problem. It took much too much time and effort on my part to resolve. No-one at Tesla provided a solution that resolved the issue. (A – see suggestions table below)
Traffic Aware Cruise Control
I purchased the Tesla Model S for the traffic aware cruise control (tacc). The tacc feature allows me to drive as long and far as I had before my injury. During sales and delivery, no-one mentioned to me that the tacc would be unavailable after delivery until the cameras had completed calibration. After delivery, when I discovered the message on the instrument panel and contacted Tesla, I was informed that the feature would start after about 100 kilometres of driving. The tacc started at much more. When I arrived for my first service appointment one young man informed me that the cameras required one longer drive to calibrate. I should have been given this information on or before delivery. I had been restricting my driving to short trips, because I didn’t have the tacc working. So I lost over three weeks of using tacc. Had I known, I would have driven in the manner that would have triggered the feature sooner. I suggest this information be conveyed to your customers before or during delivery. (B)
In each Tesla I test drove, the traffic aware cruise control behaved as described in the owners’ manual – the start speed of tacc was the current speed of the car. In my previous car (Lexus) the cruise control also started at the current speed. In my new Tesla, the first time I turned on tacc, I was shocked when the car lurched forward and I had to slam on the brakes. The small greyed numbers made reading the tacc start speed difficult, so I had not been prepared for the sudden acceleration. I quickly learned that the start speed of the tacc in my car was always much higher than my current speed – contrary to the owner’s manual. I spoke to many Tesla staff trying to understand the problem, but got no clear replies. The Tesla staff kept trying to teach me the basics of how tacc worked, but I knew how it worked. The consistent lack of listening skills across multiple Tesla staff was inexcusable. I was trying to focus on the start speed, not basic instructions on how to use the feature. Prior to my first service appointment, one person at Tesla, understood my issue and suggested, in settings, I reduce the relative speed assist warning number, to reduce the start speed of the tacc. His suggestion sounded odd to me, but it worked as a temporary measure. When I set the value to -30, the start speed of the tacc was an acceptable 30 km. But I wanted the car to warn me when my relative speed was 10 km over the speed limit, not 30 km under, so this was a temporary solution. I could not fathom why you would use one field for two completely different features. I assumed this was a temporary fix on the part of Tesla. Several of the Tesla staff informed me that the field was only used to set the initial start speed of the tacc and had nothing to do with the speed limit offset. In one case I showed the Owners manual speed limit offset information to a Tesla service technician. He adamantly informed me that the offset was ONLY for tacc start speed, not for speed limit offset, and that I was completely misunderstanding the owners’ manual. (C )
I had been told that a software fix was available for the tacc start speed problem and it would be installed before I left my first service appointment at Tesla. When I arrived for the appointment, I was told by someone else that the fix had not yet been released. A third person told me that they downloaded a software upgrade to my car. He asked I install it when I get home. He said it might contain the fix, but they were not certain. He asked I contact Tesla if the problem is not resolved. I installed the software upgrade when I got home, but it did not fix the problem. (D)
When I phoned Tesla to inform them that the software download did not fix the problem, Tesla eventually told me to bring my car in again and they would investigate the problem in more detail, because they didn’t know the cause and could not provide a software fix. I had been trying, unsuccessfully, to get a resolution to this issue by speaking to other Tesla staff. The night before the second service appointment I phoned California tech support and x answered. He was the first person at Tesla who immediately understood the tacc start speed issue. He also answered all my remaining unanswered questions. I was desperate to have him resolve the tacc start speed issue over the phone because I did not want to take my car to Tesla service. After so many weeks of poor service, I had little confidence in the Tesla service staff. Unfortunately, x strongly suggested I take my car to Tesla. At Tesla the next day, I eventually spoke with someone who started to understand my issue. We displayed the in-car owners manual and I discovered that I could start tacc at the current speed by pushing the lever down. This was an acceptable solution to my problem, because I could have the speed assist warn me at relative +10 kilometres, AND have the start speed of the tacc match the current speed of the car. After the appointment I reviewed my copy of the 8.0 Owners manual and discovered that it was different from the version in my car. I also discovered that 8.0 was the latest manual version. So I sat in the car and read the tacc section of the owners’ manual. I discovered that the tacc “problem” I’d had for weeks, was not a problem at all, but an intentional design feature. Not one Tesla staff I spoke with over many weeks had told me this. I strongly disagree with this design. The speed assist relative offset should be a separate value from the start speed of the traffic aware cruise control. For example, if I wish to be warned of speeding at a relative speed of 10 kilometres over the speed limit, I should not have my tacc start at 10 kilometres over the speed limit. Then the car default is forcing me to break the law. I can understand offering the option to either trigger tacc at the current speed, or at the speed limit, or at an offset to the speed limit. But absolutely not the offset used for a different feature – speed assist. I assume this new version of the owners’ manual was downloaded with one of the software updates. But I was not aware that tacc had changed because it was not mentioned in the software documentation. It seems Tesla expects me to re-read the owners manual with every software update and compare the entire manual to the previous version, to hunt for any changes. This is not a very user friendly approach. For safety and support, the driver must be made aware of changes to the car, preferably prior to the actual change, or at least at the same time. (E)
Interactions with Tesla staff
I like to understand products I purchase and ask more questions than most people. With the Model S I asked many questions prior to and after my purchase. My experiences with Tesla staff were almost always terrible. I interacted with many staff over many months. They gave me conflicting information, did not have the correct information, did not know, did not care to find out, or did not return phone calls or respond to emails. My impression was that the staff were poorly trained in product knowledge and customer interaction, and poorly supported with both Tesla business processes and technology.
I reviewed the Tesla web pages (Canadian and US), the owners manual and other documentation provided through the Tesla web pages, as well as the Tesla owners forums, and other information on the web. The web pages and the owners’ manual provide a good general overview, but not detailed information. The three software updates I’ve downloaded each had minimal documentation. The owners’ forums and the general web are not good sources for correct technical information.
The owners’ forum is an excellent place for owners to speak to one another, but a poor place for owners to find out correct detailed technical information. I suggest that Tesla provide a Tesla web forum in which owners can submit questions, but ONLY knowledgeable Tesla staff can respond. If owners had a single source of reliable information, they could get answers more efficiently than the months I spent talking to multiple Tesla staff and being frustrated. In addition, Tesla staff would not have to respond as often to identical questions from multiple owners. I think Tesla staff should also be able to ask questions in this forum. This would allow them to have correct information and a single source of correct information. Perhaps a separate thread could list the detailed information about software updates prior to (or concurrent with) the update being available for download. The questions and answers posed by Tesla staff should also be available to owners. You could set up separate sections e.g. by geography, or vehicle model, or software version. I suspect the savings in Tesla time and money, and the increase in customer satisfaction would be substantial. (F)
When I was researching the web to decide if I should purchase a Tesla, I found a website where owners were submitting requests for changes to Tesla vehicles. I think Tesla prioritized each request with a “simplicity of implementation” and “importance” rating. If the requests were implemented, Tesla updated the request entry. Now I cannot find that website. I thought it was an excellent idea. I hope Tesla offers such a website, in addition to (but separate from) the questions web forum that I described above. (G)
A few Tesla staff gave me consistently excellent service. They had excellent listening skills, outstanding product knowledge and good communication skills. I list the four names here...
Suggestions:
A B C D E F Provide a forum for Customers to get technical questions answered easily, and within hours rather than months.
A B C D E F Provide a forum for Tesla employees who interface with Customers to get technical questions answered correctly and quickly.
A B C D E F Design your business processes with your customers in mind. The best process design technique I used was called Line of Visibility Engineering Methodology. It was designed by IBM but was available for anyone to use free of charge.
A B C D E F Train your staff in communications skills, especially “active listening”. This should be required for all staff, whether they deal with customer or not.
A B C D E F Train your staff in sales skills. This should be required for all staff that deal with customers, but would be useful for all staff. When I worked in sales we were taught amiable/analytic/expressive/driver techniques.
A C D E F Provide a way for customers to escalate lack of support if the normal procedures are not working.
B C D E F Provide a forum to get technical information easily and quickly – i.e. to find out information that you didn’t know enough about to even ask a question e.g. calibration requirements of tacc cameras
C G Make the tacc start speed larger and easier to read.
E Ensure that all feature defaults in your vehicles abide by local laws.
E Ensure that your designs are correct. You should not use one data entry field for two different purposes.
E Provide complete and detailed information on software updates in an easily accessible location, prior to or concurrent with the installation of the update.
A B C D E F Provide a Tesla web forum for owners to ask technical questions which would be answered by Tesla
G Provide a (separate) web forum for owners to request new or changed features.
Thank you for the opportunity to provide feedback.
aleagle
Member
Thanks for your post. It mirrors my recent overall experience where the office of the president emailed telling me to expect a call from my local sales team. Not my idea of executive escalation. I have to also agree almost all employees have been responsive, well-intentioned, and accommodating when empowered to be so.
haasnoot's loud and clear message to Tesla support to get their act together is a very serious plea which Tesla need to take seriously. My experience with a Model S P90D across the Atlantic in England, which was off the road for over 3 months in the first year of ownership, echoes precisely the frustrations experienced by haasnoot. Email's to Mr Musk and his European president were ignored. Whilst the young and seemingly very inexperienced guys in Tesla UK service were doing their very best to resolve the issues with my car, they had their hands tied behind their backs by senior management who's only ambition in life appears to be sell more cars. I did eventually receive promises from the most senior executives in Europe that Tesla are working hard to improve their service support; only time will tell. In the interim I am staying with my Tesla in the ardent hope that the company does manage to square the circle by delivering a world class service to support their world beating technology.
Just my observations, but.....since we all seem to have very similar Tesla interaction stories (our saga was outlined here earlier this year).......maybe Tesla needs to "pump the breaks," so to speak? Take a pause, breathe, look around, and do a little self-examination and adjusting. The company as a whole seems to be moving so fast that their "legs" can't keep up. They can't seem to hire, train, and KEEP people long enough for them to gain the knowledge that they need to become effective and efficient employees. I *suspect* (but do not know) that their retention issues are not so much about pay, but probably employee frustration. ....Again, just my observations/guesses as a consumer from "outside of the fence." I have no insider knowledge here!
I am following up on my "love" rating for @Greyt's post.
It was specific. Detailed. Actionable.
No one was shamed by being named and blamed. (Although I'm not sure I would have much objected if names were named, as the tone and content of the post were factually-oriented.)
The poster (at least by his own report) followed his own advice by sending this feedback directly to Tesla as well as posting in this forum.
While my sales and service experiences have been vastly different from @Greyt's -- I have benefited enormously from the knowledgeable, highly energetic and supremely dedicated staff at the Natick showroom, Watertown Service Center and Dedham Service Center, all in Massachusetts, as well as the Rockville, MD service center and Tyson's Corner showroom / service center in Virginia -- I acknowledge that not all customers have been as fortunate in this regard as I have been.
As long as I have been reading this forum, since April or May, 2013, it has always been the case that some of the most active and knowledgeable people regarding Tesla vehicles have been in the customer community, not in Tesla's sales and support. If you are new to Tesla ownership, this state of affairs must seem surprising and disappointing. But when you think about it, it's not entirely unexpected. There are those among us -- including, I guess, me -- with an obsessive dedication to electric vehicles in general and to Tesla in particular as being best-in-breed. Tesla staff must constantly juggle a variety of competing obligations, while some of us customers seem to be hooked into life support machines so we can focus 24x7 on Tesla.
I find all the stories I've read so far in this thread to be credible -- not just @Greyt's -- and hence disappointing and frustrating. Unanswered emails and unreturned phone calls have been reported since I first started paying attention in 2013. So, too, different answers from different people. Without a doubt, Things Can Be Improved.
While I freely state that I lack the data to prove this contention on anything other than an anecdotal basis, I do believe that the positive experiences people have with Tesla sales and support vastly outnumber the negative ones. The level of heroism repeatedly demonstrated by Tesla support is one of the major reasons I am such an ardent fan. At the same time, it's also an implicit demonstration of un-addressed corporate weaknesses in Engineering and communications; there shouldn't *need* to be so much heroism!
In closing, I wish to reiterate my appreciation for the time and trouble @Greyt took with his report.
Thanks,
Alan
Good grief. Your mania about "shorts" is cute, but entirely pointless given the other posters here who have had issues with service and communication -- including the attempted tries to "Escalate" like we're dealing with the stupid cable company. My service advisor has had my car for a week and not told me what's going on. Someone called me to try to get the specific loaner I had back, and I asked him what was up with my car. He didn't know, even though he was looking at my "work order" or whatever they call it. WTF. Maybe I should try to talk to the Assistant to the Supervisor's Supervisor.
Please award me my stock to short now. (Also, please tell me what that means. Is it related to why EAP doesn't work?)
Oh oh, but all that said, I'm yet impressed by your dedication to your cause! Red lines = funny, every time.
Internet 101: Resist being suckered. Then resist the urge to retaliate when you have been.
I'm glad you enjoyed my picture story. Cutting and pasting screen shots with red markup doesn't feed the google search engine the same way as reposting OP text... which is what the shorts want to get higher in the rankings.
I'm glad you enjoyed my picture story. Cutting and pasting screen shots with red markup doesn't feed the google search engine the same way as reposting OP text... which is what the shorts want to get higher in the rankings.
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