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Experience moving from 2014 P85D to 2016 P100D

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Firewired, May 28, 2017.

  1. Firewired

    Firewired Member

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    Several weeks ago I traded in my 12/2014 P85D(L) for an inventory P100D with a 1000 miles on the odometer. Before hand I had posted and asked if people thought that there were any improvements in fit & finish between 2014 and the newer car, with most posting they had not perceived any improvements. My inventory car was delayed in shipping and I was fortunate enough to drive several 2017 inventory cars for further comparison to my 2014, and to me without a doubt, compared to at least my car there have been significant improvements.

    Firstly, I had a lot of issues with my car, so your mileage may vary comparing a similar 2014 to a newer car. The main reason I started thinking about the trade was due to all the issues I had with my car. I figured as with anything it would not get more reliable with age. Some of the issues I had were minor and others were more significant like leaking front motor, windshield layers delaminating, repeated front suspension problems and I could go on and on. I loved driving the car, and thankfully service was outstanding despite having no local service center at the time.

    These are the improvements to me:

    Doors - Firstly, after driving my car and the several new inventory cars, I can tell you that the door seals seem dramatically better. I have noted that with the newer cars you need more force to close the door, and when closed and driving there is much less wind noise than I ever had in my car. Not only for myself, but my teenagers and wife were each surprised on separate occasions because the typical force to close the 2014 door would leave the door slightly ajar on the 2017 cars. I looked at the seals and can’t tell any difference from looking at them, but they are definitely more effective sealing.

    Sunroof - The P85D had sunroof version 1.5 and new cars are coming with version 3.0. I had a lot of sunroof issues and multiple service visits from the metal tab hitting, to not sealing, squeaking and ultimately needing to be replaced. Even after it was replaced it sounded like it was open until they found that there hadn’t been adhesive installed all around the sunroof to hold the rubber seal. Well, opening the 3.0 sunroof on the new car is awesome. It just opens, exceptionally quietly and smoothly without any jerking, or popping. I was considering going with the all glass roof, due to all the problems I had had, but really like the open air feeling on mild days. Glad I went with it. When the 3.0 sunroof is closed it is as quiet as the glass roofed inventory cars I drove.

    Front suspension - Even after the multiple repairs I had on the front suspension and being told that everything was in spec I would get a lot of significant noise with turning. I particularly noticed it at low speeds, and when backing up in parking lots. I wondered if it might have something to do with the 21” tires. I can tell you that the P100D with the 21” is absolutely quiet.

    Motor Noise - even when new, and also when my front motor was replaced, I would notice a lot of motor noise. Additionally I had a pretty audible oscillation noise that would be there anytime the motor was at 77 mph, which unfortunately is a normal highway cruising speed for where I am. I did several test drives with my local lead tech who stated that was normal. On the P100D there is no oscillating noise at any speed, and there is barely any discernible motor noise at all.

    Performance - My P85D was a 12/14 delivery and came with the suspension plus, and splitting hairs I think that in the corners the P100D feels a little more “pillowy” and less rigid. As far as acceleration when I upgraded my P85D to Ludicrous I thought, “man this is how the car should have originally come.” The passing speeds, and acceleration onto the highway seemed more frantic. Well, on the P100D I have not been hammering the car off the line, but passing acceleration is on a whole other level, even compared to the P85D. The acceleration just seems effortless at any speed, it almost makes the car feel telepathic. You are thinking about passing, and then you are.

    Fit & Finish - I know that this is subjective, but I got to compare it to the several inventory cars I got to drive. To me the newer cars felt unquestionably more solid and better put together. There were not all the creaks that I had in my car from day one, the motor was not making all the noise it was, there was not all the wind noise at highway speeds. I really feel like I got to finally experience the pleasant quietness that other have reported.

    Sorry for the long post. I was hoping it might be of benefit to some.
     
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  2. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the update! It's good to hear a positive 'things are getting better' story..... :cool:
     
  3. jbcarioca

    jbcarioca Active Member

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    I continue to debate changing my Dec 21, 2014 P85D for a P100D. I have had only two minor problems with my 2014, fewer than I have had with any other car, including 12 German cars. Still the increased range and power do appeal to me, but I keep dithering. I don't really know why. Maybe because I really want the same car, but smaller, and that 'Ain't gonna happen' if I take Tesla commentary about the Model 3 seriously.
     
  4. No2DinosaurFuel

    No2DinosaurFuel Active Member

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    Those things you mentioned were fixed even in the 2016. But glad the P100D fixes a lot of issues you had before.
     
  5. Firewired

    Firewired Member

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    I think it may not be an uncommon turn over. Teslainventory.com is showing 140 CPO P85Ds.
     
  6. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    #6 whitex, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    Delaminating windows, it sounds like particularly bad "fit and finish" issue.
    Personally I've had 2013, 2015 and 2017 MS and must say while there are some differences in fit and finish, I didn't notice much except for some wind noise reduction in 2017. 2013 actually had the least post delivery corrections in terms of fit, finish, squeaks and rattles.

    I noticed a similar thing then we picked up the 2017, so on the next visit I asked if they could look into it - after some adjustments the doors close easier, close to 2015. Still less wind noise from the doors.

    Funny, I had the same issue with my 2015 P85D (also "+ suspension"). It turned out to be incorrect alignment (caster angle to be specific). What I did was stop the car once when I was backing out and heard the noise, got out and looked under the wheel well, saw that the tire was rubbing on the wheel well itself. Took a picture, sent to SC, they verified caster angle was quite off and fixed it. As I understand it, it's not something that can be messed up by driving, so it probably came that way from the factory. Maybe + suspension tuning is different and not everyone at the factory knew it.

    I haven't noticed much motor noise difference between 2017 and 2015, but then again one time Tesla delivered my 2015 car to my work and the mechanic who drove it made a remark that it was one of the quietest Model S he's driven, so maybe I got lucky there. I also didn't notice the difference between 2013 and 2017, but never got to drive them back to back as I sold the 2013 few weeks before 2015 arrived. 2015 and 2017 comparisons I can make because we have both of them now.

    Other than less wind noise from the doors in 2017, I haven't noticed such huge improvement on our cars. I will say that the door wind noise I could live without, I used some rubber sound dampener on my 2015 doors which made it less apparent in the cabin, but I can still hear it "inside the doors". 2017 doesn't have that issue. Also, 2015 had a few dashboard creaks but I fixed those myself so not an issue anymore.

    Can't comment on pano because all of our cars have solid roofs (though I can tell you whenever I drove loaners with pano, I always noticed the increased noise - usually the first thought is "one of the kids must have left one of the rear windows cracked, oh wait, it's a loaner with a pano roof). After few minutes you get used to is and don't notice it anymore, but switching from solid roof to pano I always noticed.

    As for performance, I bet it's better! It's what the P85D was originally supposed to deliver with the promised but never delivered 691hp highway passing speeds update. Even the Ludicrous $5K upgrade didn't make the 691hp. I rarely floor it off the line, so got enough power there, but definitely could use more power at highways speeds. All that said, I'm not going to spend the money to get there - got a 75D for my wife instead for about the same cost (probably cheaper actually). If I was replacing my car, I gotta say with all the broken promises, countergate and other limitations Tesla discovered they have to put on their top performing cars, combined with an increased price premium for those cars, I probably wouldn't be buying a P again. Also, just a thought of buying a new Tesla and having to fix stuff in the first few months after delivery doesn't leave me craving for a new one. 2015 car hasn't needed an SC visit for a while (knock on wood) and the new 2017 finally got a folding mirror that works (after 3 exchanges) so hoping we're good for now. As nice as SC folks are, nobody wants to keep repairing the car monthly.
     
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  7. Firewired

    Firewired Member

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    Whitex, thanks for the feedback. It's ineresting that your 2017 has a VIN 176xxx. The inventory car I just purchased's VIN is 177xxx and is a 2016.
     
  8. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    When the VIN was assigned towards the end of Nov was actually a 2016 VIN. Production date got delayed a bit, so the VIN changed to 2017 some time in December - my guess is that it was just in case they don't make the delivery. It ended up making the delivery on 12/31 but it was tight - from what I heard the SC was delivering cars on extended hours into late night the last week of 2016. Not sure what caused the delay, maybe waiting on the grey seats, or maybe prioritizing more expensive configurations, who knows.
     
  9. alevek

    alevek Member

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    My feelings exactly!
     
  10. d.c.palmer

    d.c.palmer Six years of EV driving

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    I thought the same about the sunroof, having "upgraded" from a 2014 P85 to a late-2016 P90DL. However, after 9 months and 7,000 miles, my new sunroof is starting to make squeaking and rattling noises - so I suspect it's only a question of time before yours does the same too. Sorry :-(
     
  11. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    No doubt the old sunroof was horrible.

    I'd disagree on fit and finish being any better though. The cars are still coming off the assembly line with the A-pillar seal being the wrong size and slipping under the headliner. That's a basic thing to get right.

    What I think people are perceiving is the difference between their older car and a brand new car. When you drive your car every day you don't notice it get progressively worse. So when you hop into a brand new car that's tight, it's going to seem like it's better built. I noticed no discernible difference in build quality between any of my 3 S's. One was a very low VIN 2013, the other somewhere in the 18,000's and my latest is a 2015 P85D. My 2013 had enough issues that I got to drive the full gambit of Tesla loaners and I can say with a degree of confidence that there's not really been any improvement.

    Nothing really drives home that point better than the comically cheap center console they're installing in the cars. Go sit in even a 5 series BMW or an Audi A8 and compare their consoles to what the S is shipping with. It's rather embarrassing.

    I'm happy to see Tesla hired Volvo's interior guy.

    Now all that said, one area I did notice substantial improvement was in ride quality. My two 2013's were rear wheel drive air suspension cars and my 2015 is an all wheel drive coil suspension car. The 2015 is noticeably more poised than the 2013's were and a lot less sloppy. I originally attributed this to the coil suspension but the P100D I drove with air suspension was similarly tight relative to the older cars. Indeed, every time Tesla puts me into an early build 2013 loaner it's a throwback to a much softer car.
     
  12. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    I think they were fixed even 2015 as I've had none of those issues.
     
  13. sillydriver

    sillydriver Member

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    Likewise, my March 2015 P85DL (73xxx) has had no problems after more than 22k miles. I'm thankful for good luck so far.
     
  14. snd92

    snd92 Member

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    I will never trade in my P85DL with + suspension, unless if Tesla offer on coming TMS.
     
  15. lance

    lance Member

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    How's the regen? I heard it's weaker now. I'm still holding onto my 12/2013 S to see what better stuff happens.... Tried a Chevy Bolt. The regen is superior to the Tesla
     
  16. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    Superior in what respects? Does it regen>60KW, does the regen at max power longer, or does it slow down more? If the latter, could it be cause it's a smaller, lighter vehicle, therefore the same regen will slow it down more?
     
  17. Firewired

    Firewired Member

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    That's interesting. i actually feel that regent braking is subjectively a little stronger. I did have a warning message pop up as I drove from taking delivery that weirdly said something like, "caution, your regenetive braking will be stronger than before." No, seriously. I figured they did an update right before I took delivery. I wasn't sure what it had been before what I presumed was an update.
     
  18. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    I have seen this kind of message show up after one of the updates a while back. It shows up as an actual warning when you start to drive, but only once I think. What's you max regen when doing 60+ on a highway and battery is not too cold/hot or full? I wonder if 100's are able to take in more than ~60KW that the P85 does today.
     
  19. BrokerDon

    BrokerDon Member

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    March 2 015 build / July 2015 delivery fully loaded "inventory" Insane P85D+ (Plus suspension). Only a creak in the steering (fixed in one visit), a broken roof rack cover, and one other minor cosmetic issue all fixed on one Tesla repair visit in 28,000 miles. Handles great, tons of power, quiet... Love it!

    Tesla gave me a fully loaded P100D for a 24 hour "extended test drive" a couple of months ag. Honestly I liked my 2015's P85D Plus suspension better... but loved the P100D's (now discontinued) ventilated seats... and of course P100DL's better acceleration most noticeable above 30 mph. AP2 was still new so it was crippled. AP1 on our P85D works wonderfully 99% of the time.

    Bottom line was the P100D it was in no way close to being worth $40,000 more to me to upgrade from my P85D+ to the P100DL. But hey I've always bought top of the line cars and kept them for 10+ years so upgrading after 2 years makes no financial sense to me.
     
  20. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Agreed. I'm holding out for the 100kWh battery upgrade. That would make our P85D+ the most badass Models Ss out there (by today's standards). ;)
     
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