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Expired LTE

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I think the assumption is that the Wi-Fi is hooked up to a stationary access point and by switching before it loses the signal you have less chance of disruption of the maps and audio.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. The wifi stack is pretty bad, so if you were connected to wifi and left your house, it would try to stay connected long after you drove away before giving up and flipping over to cellular. This way, it forces the switch over so it's more seamless connectivity.
 
I think the assumption is that the Wi-Fi is hooked up to a stationary access point and by switching before it loses the signal you have less chance of disruption of the maps and audio.

I hadn't read that you could hook it back up to Wi-Fi after going into Drive, but that seems like a viable workaround.

Yep. Switching back to WiFi in Drive didn't always work, there were a few versions where it was outright broken. I think it was around the 7.1/8.0 timeframe, but it's worked well since then.

Bruce.
 
I would never pay for data service in my Teslas, unless it was like $1/mo or something. It doesn't really bring anything to the vehicle anymore, except maybe music streaming and I can do that on my phone.

Navigation is so out dated that it's almost useless, so who cares about maps and navigation. The maps are slow as dirt, it's faster to use the phone for nav.

So... music? Nope
Nav? Nope
Browser? Hahaha

What, exactly, does data bring to the car at this point? Not a damned thing. The only thing is the wow factor for people new to the car when they see the Google Sat maps on the main display. Otherwise... meh.
 
I would never pay for data service in my Teslas, unless it was like $1/mo or something. It doesn't really bring anything to the vehicle anymore, except maybe music streaming and I can do that on my phone.

Navigation is so out dated that it's almost useless, so who cares about maps and navigation. The maps are slow as dirt, it's faster to use the phone for nav.

So... music? Nope
Nav? Nope
Browser? Hahaha

What, exactly, does data bring to the car at this point? Not a damned thing. The only thing is the wow factor for people new to the car when they see the Google Sat maps on the main display. Otherwise... meh.
ability to unlock/lock your car, track your vehicle, honk the horn etc
 
Navigation is so out dated that it's almost useless

Hardly "useless". I've been using the Nav for years and it actually works really well. Hardly "outdated", they just updated the internal system (not the Google parts) about a year ago. And the Google maps are live, so no, not outdated.

So... music? Nope

Yup. It's so much better to not have to mess with your phone while driving and use the touchscreen... even with the horrible media player UI. I'd much rather use that than fumble with a mobile device. Now if they would just add Spotify and Pandora apps.
 
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Hardly "useless". I've been using the Nav for years and it actually works really well. Hardly "outdated", they just updated the internal system (not the Google parts) about a year ago. And the Google maps are live, so no, not outdated.
I often use both Waze on my phone and the Tesla Nav system. Waze is way better at estimating the ETA given traffic conditions - so in that way I would say that it is outdated.
 
The maps are slow as dirt, it's faster to use the phone for nav.

I use Tesla's nav a lot and it works fine for me. We get a hefty fine and points for even touching our phone while driving here so that's out. But even if I could use my phone there is no Nav that I am aware of that tracks my energy use and adjusts the percentage and warns me if I can't make it to the next supercharger without slowing down, etc.

So... music? Nope.

I listen to CNN, Maddow, Rogan, plus music stations, which includes the Christmas hits station this time of year. Of course, there's lots of room for improvement -- just bringing back v. 6.2 would be a great improvement. That version was so much better and it has gone down hill ever since. For a tech automobile company it's inexcusable.

Browser? Hahaha.

Yes, it deserves a laugh but I still use it a lot. I'm not in a rush for web pages to load when I'm driving. I constantly check the headlines on NYT, Wash Post, Drudge, Fox, etc. and it works okay for that -- painfully slow -- but I still really like having it. CNN doesn't load at all but someone posted this lite version and I have it bookmarked: CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos Thanks to whoever told me about that.

I also use it to check my email and my office mail loads fine but Hotmail is a pain in the arse to get the keyboard to pop up. Again, I do this because just looking at my phone is illegal up here -- but not looking at our vehicle screens. One time in stopped traffic to the Oak St bridge the cops were hiding out and one came out, walked right by my vehicle, saw me typing an email on my screen, then pointed to the car behind me since he saw that person on the phone and had him pull over. I know it went through his head about ticketing me, and I quickly brought up the control screen when I saw him, and I never got a ticket. Please note: I was completely stopped in traffic that was not moving -- I don't type emails while the vehicle is moving.

It surprises me that we can drive and surf at all, even if it is painfully slow. I had to put a lock pick device on my Tahoe hybrid just to be able to enter addresses in nav while driving since it locks that out once the vehicle moves, as well as even browsing on Sirius -- you could only go to pre-set stations while driving until I put in the lock pick.

I would never pay for data service in my Teslas, unless it was like $1/mo or something.

What about pre-heating, pre-cooling, venting the pano on a hot summer day, checking the charge level while it's at a supercharger and you're at the coffee shop, changing it from 90 to 100% when you wake up before a trip without having to go to the vehicle, for OCD wondering if you locked it (even though I have auto lock set I still find myself checking and being re-assured that no doors were left open by the kids) and stuff like that? Still only worth $1/month?

I'm at 4 years so when it goes I'll be looking at the options because I can't do without it -- and connecting to my phone's wifi doesn't cut it because the phone comes with me so I can't communicate with the car that way.
 
ability to unlock/lock your car, track your vehicle, honk the horn etc

Are you sure those are part of the data package and not part of the vehicle systems? To my knowledge, those functions are considered part of the car and would not be disabled with an "inactive" data system that still has connectivity for telemetry, etc...

The car is sold as having an app to control it. Removing that because you aren't paying for a data package might be problematic.

Hardly "useless". I've been using the Nav for years and it actually works really well. Hardly "outdated", they just updated the internal system (not the Google parts) about a year ago. And the Google maps are live, so no, not outdated.

It's very out dated. I'm not talking about the user interface, which is indeed outdated. I'm talking about the maps. The maps are years and years out of date. There are new roads here that were built 4 years ago, bridges that no longer exist (and haven't for at least 3 years), etc... that are not on the maps. My cars try to route around those things all the time and screw you up royally if you aren't expecting it. Traffic navigation is... inadequate... The maping is slow as dirt.

Yes, it's outdated. 100%, from every aspect, it is completely outdated and virtually useless. When a Nav system can't get you from point A to point B without routing you in strange directions or over non-existent roads and bridges, it's functionally useless. How you can say otherwise is a mystery.

Yup. It's so much better to not have to mess with your phone while driving and use the touchscreen... even with the horrible media player UI. I'd much rather use that than fumble with a mobile device. Now if they would just add Spotify and Pandora apps.

100% disagree. My phone is fast and responsive. The Tesla is neither of those things. It takes me 2x as long to enter anything in to the Tesla systems as it does to enter it in to my phone. If voice commands work, it's a little better.

I use Tesla's nav a lot and it works fine for me. We get a hefty fine and points for even touching our phone while driving here so that's out. But even if I could use my phone there is no Nav that I am aware of that tracks my energy use and adjusts the percentage and warns me if I can't make it to the next supercharger without slowing down, etc.

I care not a bit for these things, as it is so inaccurate as to be useless. I road trip a lot in my Teslas and I've learned that trusting the onboard energy estimations are a recipe for getting stranded.

What about pre-heating, pre-cooling, venting the pano on a hot summer day, checking the charge level while it's at a supercharger and you're at the coffee shop, changing it from 90 to 100% when you wake up before a trip without having to go to the vehicle, for OCD wondering if you locked it (even though I have auto lock set I still find myself checking and being re-assured that no doors were left open by the kids) and stuff like that? Still only worth $1/month?

Like I said above, I don't think those things are part of the data package. They are sold with the car, as part of it's operation. Removing that functionality without an active subscribed data package would be questionable at best. Obviously they won't work if the car has zero connectivity and that's expected, but as long as the car has an active data connection for telemetry, those functions should still work.
 
Are you sure those are part of the data package and not part of the vehicle systems? To my knowledge, those functions are considered part of the car and would not be disabled with an "inactive" data system that still has connectivity for telemetry, etc...

The car is sold as having an app to control it. Removing that because you aren't paying for a data package might be problematic.

I guess no one knows for sure, but my guess would be that everything, including firmware updates (except through wifi) gets disabled with no data plan. I think the real expense here is keeping the data plan active and not how much data is used. If Tesla is going to keep the data plan active anyway then there really would be very little additional expense to let owners use some data on top of that for streaming and whatever. There wouldn’t be much of a cost for them to pass on and it would be silly to try to charge for that. I really think the car will lose all connectivity if you don’t get the data plan.
 
It's very out dated. I'm not talking about the user interface, which is indeed outdated. I'm talking about the maps. The maps are years and years out of date. There are new roads here that were built 4 years ago, bridges that no longer exist (and haven't for at least 3 years), etc... that are not on the maps. My cars try to route around those things all the time and screw you up royally if you aren't expecting it. Traffic navigation is... inadequate... The maping is slow as dirt.

Yes, it's outdated. 100%, from every aspect, it is completely outdated and virtually useless. When a Nav system can't get you from point A to point B without routing you in strange directions or over non-existent roads and bridges, it's functionally useless. How you can say otherwise is a mystery.

100% disagree. My phone is fast and responsive. The Tesla is neither of those things. It takes me 2x as long to enter anything in to the Tesla systems as it does to enter it in to my phone. If voice commands work, it's a little better.

I care not a bit for these things, as it is so inaccurate as to be useless. I road trip a lot in my Teslas and I've learned that trusting the onboard energy estimations are a recipe for getting stranded.


I guess a Tesla isn't the car for you then.

Using your phone while driving is illegal in most states. Using the Nav is not.

I've driven dozens of road trips (probably 35,000 miles in total) all over the eastern U.S. and *never* had a problem with the Nav. I found it actually very good and never gave me a bad route, and re-routed me around bad traffic several times. Sure, you can point to Nav shortcomings in any Nav package.

If you hate the nav, it's going to suck, as you find. But if you have an open mind and use it appropriately, it's actually quite good.
 
I guess a Tesla isn't the car for you then.

Using your phone while driving is illegal in most states. Using the Nav is not.

No... it's not. 17 states ban it. That's not "most," in fact, it's not even half; It's about 1/3. So the majority of the country allows cellphone use while driving.

I've driven dozens of road trips (probably 35,000 miles in total) all over the eastern U.S. and *never* had a problem with the Nav. I found it actually very good and never gave me a bad route, and re-routed me around bad traffic several times. Sure, you can point to Nav shortcomings in any Nav package.

You have this magic Tesla that nobody else seems to have. Your nav works perfectly, your LTE is fast as lightning. I imagine you probably get your ideal miles per charge in actual use as well, yes? Unfortunately, many, if not most, people aren't as lucky as you are.

[/quote]If you hate the nav, it's going to suck, as you find. But if you have an open mind and use it appropriately, it's actually quite good.[/QUOTE]

No. It's not. It's quite crappy. If you look at it objectively, you'd realize how piss-poor it is. You seem to have the Elon Reality Distortion Glasses firmly affixed to your noggin. He can do no wrong!
 
I guess no one knows for sure, but my guess would be that everything, including firmware updates (except through wifi) gets disabled with no data plan. I think the real expense here is keeping the data plan active and not how much data is used. If Tesla is going to keep the data plan active anyway then there really would be very little additional expense to let owners use some data on top of that for streaming and whatever. There wouldn’t be much of a cost for them to pass on and it would be silly to try to charge for that. I really think the car will lose all connectivity if you don’t get the data plan.

Well, I'll be one of the first to know. My 2012 (VIN 1954) will be up on the chopping block as soon as it happens. Although, I did upgrade it to LTE a couple years ago before I knew it was a pig in a poke upgrade, so maybe that would forestall any disconnections that might happen.
 
No... it's not. 17 states ban it. That's not "most," in fact, it's not even half; It's about 1/3. So the majority of the country allows cellphone use while driving.

And on a per-capita basis? It's "most". Most states have some sort of prohibition on mobile device usage:Restrictions on cell phone use while driving in the United States - Wikipedia

Your nav works perfectly, your LTE is fast as lightning. I imagine you probably get your ideal miles per charge in actual use as well,

I never claimed any of those things. I said:
- The Nav works very well
- LTE is faster than 3G
- never said anything about ideal miles per charge.


If you look at it objectively, you'd realize how piss-poor it is.

I would say that is a completely subjective statement. There is zero objectivity in your posts.

I'm basing my posts on my experience only. Not my feeling (good or bad) towards Tesla or EM. I've been highly critical on those things that actually are bad/buggy/poor design, etc. I have no reason to color my opinion of these features because I "like them" so much.

OTOH, you so clearly hate them so much, your objectivity on judging them is entirely overshown by your hated of them.
 
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And on a per-capita basis? It's "most".

Oh, so we went from "Most states" to "Per capita basis." LOL... dissemble much?

Lets see about your new claim, shall we?

Total population in states where it's illegal to use your phone while driving: 110,576,000
Total Population of United States: 316,128,839

About... wait for it... 1/3 of the population.

1/3 is not "most," it's not a "majority," nor is it even half. Ooops, I guess you are wrong again. So what exactly is your agenda here? You are spreading false information in nearly every post. Just stop.

I never claimed any of those things. I said:
- The Nav works very well

By what critera, pray tell, may I ask you think it works well? So you don't mind that it routes you over non-existent roads, across bridges that haven't existed for years, or through heavy traffic? Your definition is much more lenient than a normal person.

- LTE is faster than 3G

LTE is indeed faster than 3G. I've never disputed that. LTE in a Tesla is not faster in any meaningful way, however. But you can keep telling yourself it is to justify your purchase.

- never said anything about ideal miles per charge.

Not yet, you haven't. I'm just speculating that with your magic Tesla, that will be your next dubious claim.

I would say that is a completely subjective statement. There is zero objectivity in your posts.

You would say that, I believe that. It's just one more thing you'd be wrong about. Your credibility in this instance is just shot, I'd say we're done here.
 
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Nav has only been wrong or useless 2-3 times in my 3 years (65000 miles) of ownership.

Is it as good as waze or google maps? No.
I still only use tesla nav in the tesla. I haven’t found the need to use my phone as it’s good enough.

I would love waypoints!
 
I road trip a lot in my Teslas and I've learned that trusting the onboard energy estimations are a recipe for getting stranded.

Yes, so you add a buffer. If I go over mountain passes it's 15% (20% in winter). On straight roads it's 10%. It's easy to learn and in the 4 years I've been road tripping, I've never once been stranded but I have followed Nav warnings to slow down on many occasions.

You sure seem to struggle real hard to tell us how useless it is. We get it, it's useless to you, but it's not to a lot of us. So we can agree to disagree but it doesn't make either side right or wrong.

Like I said above, I don't think those things are part of the data package. They are sold with the car, as part of it's operation. Removing that functionality without an active subscribed data package would be questionable at best.

Interesting. I never looked at it that way. I still think these things will be gone without data but I hope you are right. Tesla never promised me that they would work without data and I never expected them to either. I doubt most people do and I see nothing "questionable" about them being gone without data -- rather that makes sense to me. But you did give me a new perspective on it and you may be right. Only time will tell.
 
By what critera, pray tell, may I ask you think it works well? So you don't mind that it routes you over non-existent roads, across bridges that haven't existed for years, or through heavy traffic? Your definition is much more lenient than a normal person.

I've never *once* experienced any of those problems. My definition is pretty standard -- does it do the job? Yes. Does it get me where I'm going without any problems? Yes. Has it ever routed me over missing roads or bridges? Nope. I think you're suffering from confirmation bias, where you find every instance of any fault to support your assertion that the Nav sucks... but you convenitely don't include the thousands of instances where it actually works very well, as evidenced by others' posts above.

LTE is indeed faster than 3G. I've never disputed that. LTE in a Tesla is not faster in any meaningful way, however. But you can keep telling yourself it is to justify your purchase.

I don't need to justify anything. LTE is significantly faster on map redraws in both cars I've owned and upgraded to LTE. It worked so well on my first car, I paid again for my second and had similar improvements. Redrawing map tiles with 3G could take up to minute (I timed it several times -- sometimes the map redraws never completed). With LTE, the longest it's taken (on average) is 10 seconds to complete, and usually well under 5.