Explaining power delivery to auto enthusiasts.......

[SSedan]

I want to make sure I have my facts straight when discussing the car with other auto enthusiasts who have no EV knowledge.

At one point I found info on the TQ/HP curve of the P85 and if I understand things right it makes peak torque everywhere below 42mph and then plateaus at peak HP till almost 70mph.

Am I understanding things right?
I calculated the mph based on motor rpm/9.7 gear reduction/tire size.

I want to compare that to an ICE where you briefly hit peak HP and peak TQ as you go thru each gear.

I am a believer, the car I traded on my P85 was a 2015 Chevy Sports Sedan with the 6.2l LS3 was 700lbs lighter with 415 HP and TQ and the porky model S is over half a second quicker to 60mph.........

I want data to help explain it to others. Yesterday I briefly talked to another Dad from kids school and he mentioned wanting a HellCat. I had an appointment so I couldn't spend time making a sale but who knows maybe I can get my first referral....

 

[Tiger]

See also related discussion: What is the difference in safe two-lane highway passing speeds between M3, S75D, S100D, and SP100D?

 

[The Duke]

Maybe this will help, check the gaps while gears change and then draw a smooth curve over the maximums in each gear to see how an electric with similar HP accelerates.

If he wants a Hellcat, he wants the growl and not the speed most likely.

 

[SSedan]

I guess I am more looking for fact checking the information I had come up with. I understand it, just want my facts straight for when I am talking to other gearheads

Went back and found the data I was using.
Tesla - Model S - P85 PERFORMANCE (416 Hp) - Technical specifications, Fuel economy (consumption) reran the numbers with actual tire size rather than a vague guess in inches.
Peak tq to 43mph peak hp to 73mph.
I can compare that to the Chevy SS hitting peak HP at 36/62/95mph.

Gearheads usually understand a broad powerband makes a quicker car. Peak torque everywhere below 43mph is pretty broad.

 

[stevezzzz]

You're right, SSedan. And 'peak torque at zero mph' really gets your attention when you're in the driver's seat.

 

[SSedan]

It gets passenger's attention too especially when you don't warn them.

 

[The Duke]

SSedan, be sure to stress no shifting. Most acceleration comparisons are done with the cars already in optimal gear. This is not real world, on the road ICE cars need to downshift.

 

[SSedan]

In another thread just today I mentioned the downshift thing, if cruising in 6th gear with a 415hp ICE and you floor it the same moment the guy next to you does in a 416hp P85, the Tesla has probably .3 second jump before the ICE has downshifted and built up some rpm to get near peak HP.

I know my way around an ICE, my SS was stock but before that the toy was a 90s LT1 Caprice(grandpa car/taxi) that was heavily modified as a street/strip car, was faster than the P85, even down low due to a lot of gear, high stall, high compression, but a 1990s 5.7l engine making 500hp naturally aspirated required a LOT of maintenance and noise wise.................I had no troubles taking it on a trip but it was too loud and rowdy for a family trip, and maintenance wise while I never had it break reliability would have been a concern on a family trip.

 

[Big Earl]

A quick test drive is all that needs to be said/done. They’ll be hooked.

 

[Mach Schnell!]

SSedan - My daily car before my Model S was also an SS, a ‘14 which I Whipple-supercharged and tuned. Its 630hp/4100 lbs power/weight ratio was greater than my P100D 680hp SAE net / ~5000 lbs. But the Tesla’s vastly higher torque (780 lb*ft) coupled with AWD traction & zero shift times make all the difference. As much as I loved that SS, there is no comparison in acceleration.

 

[SSedan]

I was looking at superchargers had I kept the SS. I really like the mag-ride they introduced in 2015 vs. the air suspension on the Tesla. There was a lot I liked about that car but no regrets about replacing it.

 

[Asymmetry]

OT "100% torque @0rpm" nuff said

Ha Aussie V8, surprised how poorly it sold in the US. VF series was the best Holden made, great car for the price. Last models has LS3 with a supercharger from factory.

 

[SSedan]

Most dealership employees mistook it for a Malibu or Impala. GM had no will to sell it in any numbers.
If I actually had the time to take a car to Road America I would have kept it.

 

[Pezpunk]

My brother's got an SS. Great car! It's a shame it never got the support or notoriety it deserved.

But when he talks about cars with his friends, he gushes and raves about my P100D more than his own ride. That instantaneous electric torque is really just on another level that ICE can't compete with.

 

[rw99]

Comparisons with ICE torque delivery should be careful to stipulate methods of aspiration; natural aspiration typically yields the aforementioned lag to peak torque delivery, as do centrifugal blowers, and larger turbos that need some time to spool. But the positive displacement (twin screw) blowers on big HP small block V8s (C7Z06, Hellcat) are at high torque delivery as early as ~2300 RPM.

Generation of unbeatable, immediate torque is unquestionably a big-battery EV advantage. But IMO it's the delivery system in the AWD Teslas that is the more impressive and impactful component... the launch traction management system is almost magical. I run drag radials on the back of my 'Cat, and trying to apply all that power to just RWD is still a constant exercise in careful throttle control... with wheelspin very difficult to avoid. Gotta be at a prepped strip to launch hard. The Model X is just the opposite: point it straight, stomp on it, and smile.


Rich

 

[Xenoilphobe]

It’s easy. Explain that they will be seeing the rear of your car from the front windshield. Over and over and over

Rw99 is Right the traction control is super awesome

 

[SSedan]

That is another thing I have tried to explain, the traction control is wonderful, any ICE I have driven with it pulls a LOT of power once there is spin, the electric motor seems to do an amazing job of just dialing it back enough to grab.

rw99, I have not driven a forced induction car, but even 2300rpm peak torque not right at 0rpm, the numbers are often not entirely honest either as torque management to save the complicated transmission often stops the motor from actually making the stated numbers under most conditions.
The Caprice I referenced above was over 12:1compression on pump gas, light weight 3800stall, 4.10 rearend gears, 1300CFM monoblade TB that was like an on/off switch. The high compression and big TB let it react faster than any other motor I have driven, and the 3800stall 4.10s gears let it get into the powerband NOW but I am middleaged with kids now and a rowdy hotrod that needs regular wrenching is not my thing anymore.It wasn't bad on gas though got 19mpg on "raceday" which involved 300mile round trip drive and however many laps I got in usually at least 5-6.
That car would pull a 1.53 60ft time on drag tires at 4200lbs with me, had a few lightening mods published curb weight was 4060lbs, I took it apart when it was time to decide on a rollbar or not because it was running 11.5s in the quarter, never got put back together but still could if I decide to teach the kids about cars. Even if ICE is on the way out I think learning about mechanical things would benefit the kids.

 

[The Duke]

Maybe drag race your friends in the rain? Good demonstration of traction control.

 

[cab]

As a fellow gearhead (who, incidentally, owned an '05 GTO - sort of the forefather to your SS), I tell my friends "It is like have a 1st gear that never ends". I have traditionally hated (and I mean HATED) automatic transmissions as they are perpetually in the wrong gear for what you want to do "right now", inevitably start to have "shift quality" issues, are typically tuned for "economy" so they "race" to get the highest gear, etc. - single gear EVs magically cured everything I ever hated about automatics. Now, I still like manual transmissions, but EVs for daily driving are it.