TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Blog Explaining the Six Levels of Vehicle Automation

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by Contributor, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. Contributor

    Contributor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    The age of autonomous driving is upon us. Automakers are making the promise of self-driving cars a reality. From street ready auto-drive systems to beta-tests of fully automated vehicles, the industry is driving towards a future where humans no longer sit behind the wheel. Most players in this space are ushering in this era through...
    READ FULL ARTICLE
     
  2. Kingdragon8

    Kingdragon8 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2017
    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Franklin, MI
    My guess is that those that stick to Level 5 as the top are overlooking the evolution to connectivity among Level 5 (or 4) vehicles and the benefits it will provide. Where vehicles can communicate in real time of slippery conditions, vehicles can travel much faster and closer together, and much more.

    I officially call it Level 6!
     
  3. SOULPEDL

    SOULPEDL Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Messages:
    198
    Location:
    Arizona
    OK, I've read this and Tesla's Definition of FSD Autopilot again. I'm guessing, but is FSD targeting Level 3 or 4?
    Technically, a summons on public streets would be L5 if not for having a steering wheel, correct? Laws aside, hoping our M3 will take us to work then return home and park in the garage (covered parking), maybe by 2021.

    Thanks,
    John
     
  4. d21mike

    d21mike Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    708
    Location:
    Torrance, CA 90503
    I believe FSD will be L4 when complete. Maybe L5 will be reserved for the Tesla Ride Sharing Network.

    Elon Musk offers more detail about Tesla’s ridesharing network
     
    • Like x 1
  5. J X 3

    J X 3 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Messages:
    157
    Location:
    Earth
    You can't actually have safe L3 and L4. By definition those can't handle everything and you cant just wish it OK.

    L4 will practically be folks that rely too much on maps as a crutch. The perception software can't handle complex situations so they need to have things prelabeled but the real world is dynamic and incidents will happen.
    L3 is the most idiotic of all, the car needs to know it can't handle something at the very least 3-4 seconds before it gets there and that's impossible. At 65mph the car travels at 29m per second and very often you don't have the visibility to see a few seconds ahead and allow sufficient time for handover.

    L5 is the only viable option but it's not really properly defined. Take a 100 years old car, put a brink on the gas pedal and it's L5! It would be able to drive itself without a problem until there was a problem. Same statement is true for the most sophisticated system, the only difference being how soon the problem arrives. It would be good if the threshold is better than the best human driver in any scenario but nobody aims that high, they put profits first so they love to compare vs average driver on an overall basis and not for specific scenarios. Problem is, average driver is worse than vast majority of drivers (as the average is dragged down but the most irresponsible drivers) so yo really don't want to let your kids ride in such a car.
    Another problem is that crashes are judged on a case by case basis because every person has human rights and the right to live is rather important. So the greediest folks aiming for the lowest threshold , will end up paying for it in courts and destroying their brand. People are not statistics, each and everyone has rights that you got to respect, can't kill one to save a million.
    Tesla is at risk here as , for now, Musk loves to compare Tesla's stats with the average and that's aiming far far too low- the median driver is already likely a few times better than the average driver.
    The autonomous car should really be compared with the best human driver helped by the best driver assist system. You can't call it safe if you don't beat that.

    In the end, the robot has many advantages over human drivers ( better sensors, faster reaction time, better decision making) and the only weakness is the perception software, interpreting the data it gets from the sensors to understand the world. So it's not that hard to be better than the best human drivers once the perception software reaches a certain level of maturity. A pessimist could argue that narrow AI won't cut it, that the world is too diverse but it's likely that a lot of data and a lot of work will be enough.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Disagree x 1
  6. Ticobird

    Ticobird Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2014
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    North Alabama
    Level 5 driving autonomy cannot and should not be described without mentioning the need for vehicle to vehicle and vehicle to infrastructure communication capabilities.
     
  7. J X 3

    J X 3 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Messages:
    157
    Location:
    Earth
    #7 J X 3, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
    That's greatly overhyped by folks trying to sell silicon for it.
    You got maybe 2 billion vehicles on the road and replacing that fleet takes decades.
    Sufficient penetration for V2V to be of any relevance takes quite a few years and by that time the autonomous systems become far more capable and V2V doesn't add much of anything. Don't confuse the operator acquiring data from the swarm with V2V - something like live traffic data does not require V2V. V2V would help with near instantaneous data at short range but at low penetration that's not very helpful at all.
    V2X (so to anything) is super costly and in most of the world you are never ever gonna have that infrastructure so you can't rely on it. Just like you can't remove the headlights today, except much worse.

    V2X becomes more relevant when all cars are autonomous and V2X enables much higher speeds where it is present but for now, it can provide minimal upside at a huge cost.
    And the need for V2V, absolutely not, it's not technically autonomous if there is such a need.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Disagree x 1
  8. GSP

    GSP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,391
    I don't believe the level 5 definition is correct. There is nothing in the Society of Automotive Engineers level 5 definition that requires the removal of the steering wheel or other driver controls. Level 5 can drive anywhere and under any conditions that a human can, so driver controls can be removed, but removal is not required.

    Owners of level 5 cars may wish to have the option to drive themselves, especially when the technology is first introduced.

    GSP
     
    • Like x 1
  9. Plug Life

    Plug Life Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2016
    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    The Grid
    I'm waiting for Level 6 — travelling without moving
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC