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Extremely Disappointed With Model S Range When Driving on the Highway at 35F
- Thread starter Beasts
- Start date
Note that the OP didn't say he was driving at the 70 mph speed limit. When he said "I have never been stopped for driving at the speeds we traveled", I assumed he was driving closer to 80 mph.
MichaelJava95
Member
Didnt tesla put heat pumps into new Moodel S/X?
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You answered it yourself really. Cold weather and speed. This is basic battery chemistry (cold weather) and physics (speed). The power needed to move the car increases with the SQUARE of the speed, which means there is a HUGE difference between 60 and 70 mph energy draw. When you have time, try cruising carefully at 50, then 60 then 70 mph and examine the energy graph to see the difference.
You dont notice this with ICE cars so much since they are so inefficient the change in power needed due to speed is a much smaller percentage of the total power wasted by the engine as heat.
We're dealing with the world of the EPA here .. the range isnt so much what you can expect, more how it compares to other EVs under controlled conditions. So, yeah, you didn't get the range you expected, but the same would have been true whatever EV you chose.
As for winter coats, there is a good reason why Tesla include seat heaters .. it's often lower energy cost to heat the seats then the entire cabin (especially when driving alone).
While I'm not defending Tesla, it's worth remembering that every car maker has spent years gaming the EPA system .. ICE and EVs alike. Anyone who thinks other EV makers are "pure and unsullied" is being naive.
Dannietjoh
Member
I haven’t read all replies so it may have been mentioned before but the seat and steering wheel heater are your (and your cars range) friend. Putting those on and the cabin heater lower will increase your range drastically. The cabin heater is something like 6kW where the seat and steering wheel are a few 100W combined.
Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds
Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.
www.edmunds.com
Other manufacturers don’t seem to be so good at gaming…
Factors to consider / tune based on over 60k miles in our 2017 S 100D (LR).
- Tire pressure. I run at 48 psi cold - before driving at that day’s morning temperature. At highway speed tires generally end up at 53 psi. They reach that equilibrium pressure by heating the internal air through sidewall flex. Start with relatively low tire pressure, you need lots of sidewall flex to raise the pressure. Sidewall flex raises rolling resistance, reducing range. OP may have started with low pressure since cold weather just arrived.
- Cabin heat. Already covered. Will add that 100 KWh is energy equivalent to 3 gallons of gasoline.
- Speed. Our S hits the knee of its efficiency curve at 72-73 mph. Ener
Buddyroe
Active Member
Too short? It's the fastest way to road trip an ev. Longer stints require deeper charges, which are long since charging speed goes down as the battery fills up. By stopping less you'll arrive later. Weird, I know
Actually, the smartest and best way to travel in an EV is to slow down. You cannot charge as fast as the extra energy you spend going faster (you will spend more time charging to replace the extra miles used than you saved by going faster). The only time this doesn't apply is when you can easily make it to your destination and there's a charger available there.
Also, using your method, you better not start off with a full battery. The closer to zero you are when you arrive at the charging station, the lesser you'll need to charge to reach the next supercharger.
Regardless, when traveling in an EV, driving slower gets you there faster. Though I admit that it's hard to do sometimes.
I disagree, as all of my BMW’s have been rated for lower EPA mpg and all have easily bested the EPA mpg. Most of the time not even close, but in a good way.
Good advice, but for me traveling slower defeats the whole purpose and fun of having a fast EV vehicle. Never have to worry about traveling slower in ice cars.
Driving on the Ohio Turnpike on Thanksgiving, the average speed was around 80+ with lots of cars going much faster. The only car I really saw going slowly on the whole trip was a Model 3. LOL. Thought to myself, one reason people buy Tesla’s is because of the performance, but then don’t get to enjoy the performance on a trip.
I will be dIrving my Model S that I pickup this Wen for performance/fun like my BMW’s and if that does not work out, then will sell it and wait until EV’s catchup. I would be jealous on a trip of other cars blowing past me and here I am in my $95k Model S driving the speed limit.
When edmunds tested driving to dead, Tesla faired better than before. Tesla (unfortunately) doesn’t have their zero miles left mean zero. In this test, they were able to get closer to EPA.Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds
Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.www.edmunds.com
Other manufacturers don’t seem to be so good at gaming…
Testing Tesla's Range Anxiety: Tesla Model Y, Model 3, VW ID.4, Ford Mach-E | Edmunds
When we published our real-world Edmunds EV range test, Tesla challenged our finding that its vehicles fell short of their EPA range estimates. Was the challenge valid? Here's the test we conducted to find out.
www.edmunds.com
Well… the rest of the year, Tesla owners can be blowing past you in your BMW.Good advice, but for me traveling slower defeats the whole purpose and fun of having a fast EV vehicle. Never have to worry about traveling slower in ice cars.
Driving on the Ohio Turnpike on Thanksgiving, the average speed was around 80+ with lots of cars going much faster. The only car I really saw going slowly on the whole trip was a Model 3. LOL. Thought to myself, one reason people buy Tesla’s is because of the performance, but then don’t get to enjoy the performance on a trip.
I will be dIrving my Model S that I pickup this Wen for performance/fun like my BMW’s and if that does not work out, then will sell it and wait until EV’s catchup. I would be jealous on a trip of other cars blowing past me and here I am in my $95k Model S driving the speed limit.
That's missing the point. Even after they fixed testing to Tesla's satisfaction, the Tesla cars barely made their rated range (some still came up short). Meanwhile, pretty much every other car manufacturer exceeded their rated range by a pretty wide margin under identical test conditions highlighting how Tesla is the only company willing to game the range ratings to have larger numbers that don't really hold up in the real world. Published range ratings from Tesla with their cars are nowhere near equivalent to those published by other EV manufacturers. The latter tend to publish range estimates that are actually achievable in real-world driving conditions unlike Tesla.When edmunds tested driving to dead, Tesla faired better than before. Tesla (unfortunately) doesn’t have their zero miles left mean zero. In this test, they were able to get closer to EPA.
Testing Tesla's Range Anxiety: Tesla Model Y, Model 3, VW ID.4, Ford Mach-E | Edmunds
When we published our real-world Edmunds EV range test, Tesla challenged our finding that its vehicles fell short of their EPA range estimates. Was the challenge valid? Here's the test we conducted to find out.www.edmunds.com
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
This just isn’t true any more.
Practically speaking, when traveling where charging stops are abundant I find the strategy @GtiMart describes to be easily the quickest - go as fast as you want, stop frequently, work the bottom half of the battery.
Consider a leg of a long trip where two cars leave a supercharger with 50% SoC and drive 100 miles to the next supercharger. One travels 80mph and one travels 65mph.
Travel time for the fast car is 1hr 15 minutes.
Travel time for the slow car is 1hr 32 minutes. (17 minute difference)
Using efficiency data from ABRP, a Model S 100D will use about 288 wh/mi at 65 mph and ~350 wh/mi at 80 mph. So the slow car uses 28.8kwh for the leg and the fast car uses 35.0kwh (difference of 6.2 kWh).
At ~120kw supercharging, it will take 3 minutes to make up for the extra energy used during this leg. Even if you’re only drawing 60kw, you’ll still recoup the extra energy more than twice over before the slower car arrives 17 minutes after you do.
Taking the strategy to the logical extreme: Go fast, stop frequently is the quickest by far.
A Rented Tesla Model S Just Shattered the EV Cannonball Record
Piloted by Ryan Levenson and Josh Allan, the Model S crossed the country in 42 hours and 17 minutes. That's two hours faster than the previous record, set in a Porsche Taycan.
www.roadandtrack.com
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100% (not the battery) agree!This just isn’t true any more.
Practically speaking, when traveling where charging stops are abundant I find the strategy @GtiMart describes to be easily the quickest - go as fast as you want, stop frequently, work the bottom half of the battery.
Consider a leg of a long trip where two cars leave a supercharger with 50% SoC and drive 100 miles to the next supercharger. One travels 80mph and one travels 65mph.
Travel time for the fast car is 1hr 15 minutes.
Travel time for the slow car is 1hr 32 minutes. (17 minute difference)
Using efficiency data from ABRP, a Model S 100D will use about 288 wh/mi at 65 mph and ~350 wh/mi at 80 mph. So the slow car uses 28.8kwh for the leg and the fast car uses 35.0kwh (difference of 6.2 kWh).
At ~120kw supercharging, it will take 3 minutes to make up for the extra energy used during this leg. Even if you’re only drawing 60kw, you’ll still recoup the extra energy more than twice over before the slower car arrives 17 minutes after you do.
Taking the strategy to the logical extreme: Go fast, stop frequently is the quickest by far.
A Rented Tesla Model S Just Shattered the EV Cannonball Record
Piloted by Ryan Levenson and Josh Allan, the Model S crossed the country in 42 hours and 17 minutes. That's two hours faster than the previous record, set in a Porsche Taycan.
My first road trip in my old X I didn’t know this and it sucked.
Have since learned to drive the way I like (which can be fast at times) and work the lower half of the battery. Overall trip times have dropped dramatically.
Buddyroe
Active Member
This just isn’t true any more.
Practically speaking, when traveling where charging stops are abundant I find the strategy @GtiMart describes to be easily the quickest - go as fast as you want, stop frequently, work the bottom half of the battery.
Consider a leg of a long trip where two cars leave a supercharger with 50% SoC and drive 100 miles to the next supercharger. One travels 80mph and one travels 65mph.
Travel time for the fast car is 1hr 15 minutes.
Travel time for the slow car is 1hr 32 minutes. (17 minute difference)
Using efficiency data from ABRP, a Model S 100D will use about 288 wh/mi at 65 mph and ~350 wh/mi at 80 mph. So the slow car uses 28.8kwh for the leg and the fast car uses 35.0kwh (difference of 6.2 kWh).
At ~120kw supercharging, it will take 3 minutes to make up for the extra energy used during this leg. Even if you’re only drawing 60kw, you’ll still recoup the extra energy more than twice over before the slower car arrives 17 minutes after you do.
Taking the strategy to the logical extreme: Go fast, stop frequently is the quickest by far.
A Rented Tesla Model S Just Shattered the EV Cannonball Record
Piloted by Ryan Levenson and Josh Allan, the Model S crossed the country in 42 hours and 17 minutes. That's two hours faster than the previous record, set in a Porsche Taycan.
You conveniently left off the time it costs to actually stop at the supercharger. You counted 3 minutes. But, I'm not even going to stop because I started with a full charge. So unless you can teleport your car from the interstate to the supercharger, and then back onto the interstate, stopping will have a much greater cost than the 3 additional minutes. And it also depends on where the supercharger is. 10 minutes is the best case scenario.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
You’re changing the argument to something completely different.
I maintain my position: your argument that you need to “go slow to go fast” in an EV is simply not true at modern DC charging speeds. All other things being equal, going quickly,stopping more frequently, and using the bottom half of the battery will be faster. In the example above you’re STILL ahead even if you account for the deadhead minutes/miles getting to/from the charger (I think your estimate of 10 minutes is quite high for most of the sites I use).
If you’ve got a real world counterexample with any two reasonably distant points on a map, offer it up.
I’ll concede that the one scenario where it might make sense to slow down is when the trip is right on the edge of the max range of the car and the difference is between having to stop or not. But that’s not the same argument you made originally - that you “cannot charge as fast as the extra energy you spend going faster.” In almost all cases, you can.
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