Extremely disappointed with the product and my experience with my P85+

[e4chan]

I feel your pain OP...I definitely can understand for a car that is 6 figures, that you expect service and quality. This is my main concern, when ordering the P85+ (still waiting)....as an early adopter, I expect anything can happen. Sometimes I debate whether to get an M5, but when I think about the gas, I tell myself "forget it". There is a certain tolerance level that needs to be set for early in the game for new stuff.

I've actually had the same thing happen to 2 of my German cars - The Audi with it's electrical problems (stranded in -30 Celsius snowy weather, is not the most fun ) This happened twice on me. BMW...same thing.

There are lemons out there....and really depends on how the car manufacturer takes car of their customers. I still think that if the corporate office can't fix it by "X" number of times, it should be considered a lemon and replace it with another vehicle.

My other question though would be - how is Tesla "Quality Assurance/Control" on the cars. Is there any? Or do they just slap the car together and deliver it.

Miamimd - Hope you resolve your problem and build up the confidence for Tesla again.

 

[miamimd]

Me too. Thanks and I will keep all informed

I feel your pain OP...I definitely can understand for a car that is 6 figures, that you expect service and quality. This is my main concern, when ordering the P85+ (still waiting)....as an early adopter, I expect anything can happen. Sometimes I debate whether to get an M5, but when I think about the gas, I tell myself "forget it". There is a certain tolerance level that needs to be set for early in the game for new stuff.

I've actually had the same thing happen to 2 of my German cars - The Audi with it's electrical problems (stranded in -30 Celsius snowy weather, is not the most fun ) This happened twice on me. BMW...same thing.

There are lemons out there....and really depends on how the car manufacturer takes car of their customers. I still think that if the corporate office can't fix it by "X" number of times, it should be considered a lemon and replace it with another vehicle.

My other question though would be - how is Tesla "Quality Assurance/Control" on the cars. Is there any? Or do they just slap the car together and deliver it.

Miamimd - Hope you resolve your problem and build up the confidence for Tesla again.

 

[ckessel]

Me too. Thanks and I will keep all informed

Something to keep in mind. Not an excuse, just something that's helped me. Everyone at Tesla works insane hours. If someone is short, or doesn't get back to you, or what not it's almost certainly due to stress and not because they're rude/mean/crappy people. I make an extra effort to be polite and say thanks because I know when I'm in those high stress situations those small things make it the job easier to handle.

I suppose we should all do that every day, but human nature being what it is it's easy to slip (on either side), especially given the obligations/expectations inherent in a purchaser/provider relationship.

I'm not saying to cut the issues you find any slack and certainly escalate up the chain if you need to be the squeaky wheel that gets greased, just realize the folks on the front line are probably really doing their very best.

 

[Fonzie]

I've learned you have to go into this keeping in mind that you're jumping on the train of a new product. Wanna play with the newest toys? There are going to be bugs. Anyone who buys a car that's less than 2 years in the market is going to be an extended beta tester IMO. It comes with the territory.

However, I agree that there are some embarrassing glitches with this car. There is a OBVIOUS issue with suspension that more and more people are experiencing. The toe coming out and people's rear wheels unevenly wearing is terrible. Watching that Edmunds.com review of the tesla and seeing that their car's rears were completely bald to the steel braiding only on the inside edge proved not only my car had that issue - but it's viral. The alignment of the car does not hold true in a lot of cases, and the tires as well as the ability to accelerate confidently in a straight line are compromised.

I just traded in my P85 for a brand new +, and this car has issues that the other car didn't. Noises, rattling, etc. The build quality will get better.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Experiencing problems with a car that costs over $100,000 is an emotional experience, I can vouch for that. My car needed a new drive unit (inverter, motor, etc.) barely two weeks into ownership... Alcantara had bubbles in it... pano roof seal was being pulled under the roof line when closing (even though SC applied a bulletin prior to delivery)... front passenger door difficult to close... window regulator clips needed. After replacing the drive unit, the car received an alignment by a third party because our local service center was operating out of a temporary facility. The third party didn't do a very good job, my P85 felt squirrely on the freeway and would drift to the right, steering wheel slightly off to left, typical botched alignment job.

I did raise my issues to the regional and VP level, which was addressed literally within five minutes of hitting the SEND button. I received a call from the regional manager to apologize, he offered to have the car sent back to the factory for a re-do. I felt that was a wonderful gesture, but probably unwarranted at this stage. Parts which I were told would take weeks to receive were suddenly being overnighted to Phoenix by various departments at Tesla. They made everything right and to my satisfaction. They re-did the alignment in-house yesterday - they just moved into their permanent facility which has an alignment bench - and it's perfect.

I'm certain Tesla will take good care of you. It's unfortunate, but sometimes an issue needs to be escalated to executive management in order to be taken seriously. Jerome Guillen has said on multiple occasions that he wants to know when a customer is having trouble with their service center. I don't think the problems you are experiencing are extreme or unusual for this early production vehicle, what I find troubling is that these easily fixable items are not being addressed by your service center. In fact, when a car goes back to service, they should apply all service bulletins to that vehicle.

I hope you get the resolution you seek. I would suggest dealing directly with the service manager at this point and ask him to personally inspect and drive your vehicle to confirm the issues you are complaining about. Also request a written receipt for all work that was performed. I was upset, too, but Tesla jumped and made everything right in the end. Give them a chance.

 

[brianstorms]

I haven't had the wind noise issue until I got a loaner... I can commiserate with you on the annoyance at speed. I can ignore it since I know I'm giving it back.

When I got a P85 loaner the first thing I noticed was wind noise in the closed pano roof. I mean it was bad from 25-30mph and up, on any street, and real bad on freeways. Being an S85 owner, the P85 was a thrill to drive though, a crazy rocket ship . . . so I didn't pay much attention to the wind noise

 

[leonari]

The guy is ****** and thats OK.

There are plenty of P85+ customers who have zero issues. If you believe that buying a german luxury car is an insurance for not having issues with a brand new car you are dead wrong! I bought a brand new Audi TT 8J in germany . From day one I had issues with power management (car feeling as if it has 20 HP - literally it barely moved), and brakes. 2 times the problem with the brakes was so bad I had to use the handbrake to get home. I am not joking!! We are talking about a 90.000 $ car here. The car has been to 3 different service centers for a total of 8 times. Promised me each time no more issues-car is fixed. The problem appeared again and again and again.

So whats that? Audi is not a startup but one of THE most established car manufacturer in the world. The car was expensive. The car was brand new. The car was a piece of ****.

You know what that is? It's called bad luck man. It happens. Can happen with a mercedes, bmw, bentley, aston, audi and yes indeed to a brand new Tesla Model S P85+. And it happened to you.

I hope Tesla will resolve all your issues . My advice: Sell the car. Thats what I did with my TT. Forget Tesla and go back to those perfect german luxury cars and hopefully you will be lucky but there are no guarantees. Not with cars nor in life.

 

[NigelM]

Mod Note: Bunch of posts went to snippiness. As always, apologies to any innocents caught up in that move. It's not appreciated that the snippiness continued again after Dave's warning. Now everybody chill please, there's no need to discuss other folks writing skills and watch the language also. Thanks.

 

[Krugerrand]

Boy, you guys are harsh. The OP has some serious issues and, to my mind, has been incredibly patient to live with many of them for 5 months.

I don't think anyone's been any harsher with the OP than the OP himself. If he's spoken to the Tesla service people the way he's written his letter to Tesla, then it's no wonder his issues haven't been fixed. When you have to claim, "I'm a very busy physician and don't have time for this..." expressing it as if your occupation and your time is somehow more important than other's, you're going to have your audience shut off from you, particularly when you can simply have a Tesla Ranger bring you a loaner for however long is needed. That doesn't infringe on any of the good doctor's valuable time.

Here's a little story. A rather large and powerful company was sending incorrectly charged bills for a property my husband and I own. Since the account was solely in my husband's name he had to call and ask that a correction be made. 6 months later and as many phone calls and still the issue was unresolved and the amount owing was growing at a rapid rate. My husband is generally very good dealing with people, he's always polite, very pc, but sometimes that nets him roadblocks and inaction.

By this time it was clear to me that I was going to have to handle the situation, so the account was also put in my name. On my very first phone call,within 30 seconds I managed to get to a supervisor of enough status to actually do something. I didn't have to raise my voice, I didn't have to cajole, belittle or otherwise anger the person on the other end of the phone. I simply had to acknowledge to them that I fully understood the position they were, that they didn't have the power to help me and that that wasn't their fault. Thusly, they shouldn't have to deal with me. I had a wonderfully sensible conversation with the supervisor, she was charming and helpful, manually overrode the computer even though it was against company policy, and flagged my account to be personally watched for the next three months to make sure the error didn't repeat.

Point being, it's all in how you express yourself and how you talk to people. A lot of people have lost those skills because of cell phones, ipads, social media and that whole movement away from talking to each other face to face, eye to eye. I'm so far from PC it isn't funny, but I'm honest and fair. I guarantee if I was the doctor's wife, he'd have no reason to write such a letter and post it on an Internet forum. Indeed, I'd have forbidden him to waste his time doing such a thing AND his car would be fixed. :wink:

Now if he'd like to claim that there shouldn't have been anything at all to fix on the car in the first place, then that's a different matter all together and we'll agree to disagree.

 

[gameon]

I agree with OP. Anyone can get upset :cursing: with $130k car...heck even with $20k car (leaf or spark EV etc)

I always feel complex technology (not expert in computer-related stuff) come with extra baggage. I am not worried about repairs under warranty but what happens when you encounter such a problem after the warranty period. We all know that tesla is high tech vehicle and nobody, but tesla service center can repair it (mom & pop shop has no idea about many hybrids left the EV out of question)

You certainly want $130k car to last many years with minimal problem and helping startup is not OP or any buyers first or last goal.

 

[100thMonkey]

I think the OP has the right to be mad, and I thank him for having the stones to come forth. I think a lot of S owners are huge fans, myself included, on top of that a lot of us are investors. too many are reluctant to press for improved quality control for fear of hurting the brand and perhaps even hurting one's own investment in TSLA. It's been hinted at, but not really taken head on much, it appears that Tesla has a quality control issue with some of the early VINs. by going to easy on Tesla, we all risk sending the wrong impression, which could hurt Tesla in the long run. the more main stream the buyer pool gets, the less acceptable all these little and sometimes not so little quirks will be. Fortunately, it seems that the latest cars coming out of the hatchery are pretty rock solid but being too reluctant to air concerns may actually send the wrong message so we really shouldn't shame anyone who comes forward, even if it's in a fit of anger. I think Tesla needs a little reality check. I've owned quite a few new cars over the years and very rarely had to go in for repairs within the first few years. My first S was an early VIN and it too had a lot of issues and I eventually got fed up and that's coming from someone who is very passionate about Tesla and very much wants the EV revolution to crush the Oilogarchy... it's hard to admit that there have been issues so take it easy on the people who do, aside from the hit to pride, it should only make Tesla stronger as they find ways to address concerns. Any new company has this hill to climb.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I agree that it wasn't the best presentation. I also had issues that required escalation to a VP, however I was always polite, respectful, and deferential. I believe that once you tell Tesla that you're going to the media, you've told them that you've already made up your mind. If true, then what is Tesla's incentive to make you happy if you've just finished telling them that you are going to bad mouth them in the media and to other prospective customers? That's pretty much how you ended your email. Usually the last thing that you say is what the reader remembers the most.

What's that saying... you attract more flies with honey than vinegar? I would have taken a more humble approach.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I agree that it wasn't the best presentation. I also had issues that required escalation to a VP, however I was always polite, respectful, and deferential.

Although, to be fair, I do remember you were still jumped on in the same manner, despite the better presentation. If not here, then over on the official forums (I can't recall).

 

[AMN]

Sorry about your bad luck with Model S. Ours has been flawless so far. The best car we have ever owned.

We have had many cars over the years (3 AMGs, 4 M's, 2 Porsche turbos...) and they all had issues - failed turbo on a Porsche, cracked spoke on an AMG rim, blown SMG transmission on a 1 month old M5, trunk randomly popping open while driving on a 2013 ML63, etc. I guess they are all inexcusable in cars that cost that much. We managed though.

I am sure this thread will hit a couple email boxes in Fremont and Tesla follows up on your issues.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Although, to be fair, I do remember you were still jumped on in the same manner, despite the better presentation. If not here, then over on the official forums (I can't recall).

Agreed. I was also called a troll and an idiot. At least you find out pretty early who are the stock fanatics. Or Tesla Extremists as I call them (lol)...

My comments had more to do with presenting the OP's argument to a Tesla VP. I find that letting the fact pattern speak for itself is the strongest statement, and without the emotional editorial comments that may be perceived as insulting by the reader. If you want Tesla to fix something, insulting them is probably not the best approach. But when you're really upset, as OP has a right to be, sometimes it's difficult to walk that line.

 

[DIL]

Sorry about your bad luck with Model S. Ours has been flawless so far. The best car we have ever owned.

We have had many cars over the years (3 AMGs, 4 M's, 2 Porsche turbos...) and they all had issues - failed turbo on a Porsche, cracked spoke on an AMG rim, blown SMG transmission on a 1 month old M5, trunk randomly popping open while driving on a 2013 ML63, etc. I guess they are all inexcusable in cars that cost that much. We managed though.

I am sure this thread will hit a couple email boxes in Fremont and Tesla follows up on your issues.

I've been a loyal Toyota/Lexus owner and fan for a long time now for exactly this reason. There's something to be said for the bulletproof reliability they somehow engineer into their products. The level of QA is something Tesla is striving for, but they're obviously running as fast as they can to meet global demand right now. It's not an excuse, just a fact. Like many of of you, I'm willing to take a little bit of risk for a product that is clearly ahead of its time. That said, the vast majority of owners that I'm aware of both here and in chance encounters are incredibly pleased with the product and the service.

 

[hockeythug]

Agreed. I was also called a troll and an idiot. At least you find out pretty early who are the stock fanatics. Or Tesla Extremists as I call them (lol)...

My comments had more to do with presenting the OP's argument to a Tesla VP. I find that letting the fact pattern speak for itself is the strongest statement, and without the emotional editorial comments that may be perceived as insulting by the reader. If you want Tesla to fix something, insulting them is probably not the best approach. But when you're really upset, as OP has a right to be, sometimes it's difficult to walk that line.

Do you have a link to your thead? I tried seaching your posts but I don't think the forum lets you search for threads created by a certain user.

 

[Todd Burch]

Humans tend to form opinions about product quality at a microscopic level. If we have a poor experience with the quality of Company A's product, we tend to believe that Company A's product is terrible. If we have a great experience with the quality of Company B's product, we say that Company B's product is excellent.

At a macroscopic view, neither is correct--the reality is somewhere in the middle. Are most carmakers going to exceed Tesla's current state of manufacturing quality? Many will. They've been around much longer and they're not ramping up at an insane pace.

However, in most cases Tesla will make things right. I have some gap and flush issues on my car, but hey--I'm VIN 1653. I expected issues like that buying an early car. Does it irk me? Yes. Paying this much for a car, you expect the same quality as any other high end car.

Having said that though, no other car on the planet can give me the same overall experience as this car. It's about the total package. You have to be willing to sacrifice a little for that privilege. Tesla will get better, the cars will continue to improve, and hopefully all the issues with your car will be improved.

It just comes with the territory.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Do you have a link to your thead? I tried seaching your posts but I don't think the forum lets you search for threads created by a certain user.

I don't know how to dig up an old, private thread at the TM forums. A google search won't reveal it, and there's no way to search at TM. So unfortunately, I have no way of finding it either other than to go through every page of the forum postings.

 

[wormhole]

Thanks I will keep this in mind

My Pano issues just got fixed yesterday...it required the following:

1. Removal and complete replacement of the black piece between the windshield and the Pano - and by black piece i mean the entire roof section that runs from drivers side door window to passenger side front door window.
2. Completely new 'gasket' around the pano
3. Also changed out the butyl or whatever it is that kept melting and streaking down the back part of the roof every time I opened it.

was done out of the White Plains, NY SC.