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F-150 Ford Lightning

Cosmacelf

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The top-selling vehicle in the U.S. is soon to be electric. Ford will unveil details Wednesday on its new electric F-150 Lightning pickup.



Ford is slated to start production of the truck in 2022. President Joe Biden visited the Michigan plant that will produce the vehicle on Tuesday. Biden also took to the track to give the Lighting a test drive. “This sucker’s quick,” Biden told reporters from behind the wheel.



Ford will make an official public reveal of the truck at 9:30 p.m. ET Wednesday. 



The F-150 is an important part of Ford’s business and American roadways. The trucks range from everyday work vehicles to luxury-optioned trucks that can exceed $80,000. The fact that an electric version will be available is a great sign for the future of EVs.



Other electric pickups expected in the next couple model years include Tesla’s Cybertruck, the GMC Hummer EV, and Rivian’s R1T. 

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swaltner

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I’ll be tuning into the reveal next week. I hope they give pricing details on the 19th. I’m interested in how pricing will compare to the R1T. I’m evaluating my options to eventually replace my 2003 Ram 1500. I haven’t decided if I want to purchase a new EV pickup next year or hold onto the Model 3 and Ram 1500 for a few more years and get one off the used market.
 
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I would consider waiting rather than diving into a first year car. I waited over a year for my first EV a nissan leaf, and that car had no issues, I waited over a year to buy my first tesla and despite waiting I suffered through many teething issues with that car, I waited a year before buying my Taycan and am suffering through the wonkiness of it's tech.
buying first year cars, especially these new tech heavy cars can be very trying for the owners, sometimes a year can be enough for the manufacturer to sort out the glitches.
 

alexgr

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I would consider waiting rather than diving into a first year car. I waited over a year for my first EV a nissan leaf, and that car had no issues, I waited over a year to buy my first tesla and despite waiting I suffered through many teething issues with that car, I waited a year before buying my Taycan and am suffering through the wonkiness of it's tech.
buying first year cars, especially these new tech heavy cars can be very trying for the owners, sometimes a year can be enough for the manufacturer to sort out the glitches.
I've also heard that buying Ford in the first or second year ... and buying Ford in any year or production might be a bad idea. I'll never forget my Mazda with Ford's transmission I've got 20 years ago. It got me stranded in the middle of nowhere in New Hampshire. It perplexes me how Ford suddenly tries to become a reliable semi-luxury brand when it is well known for selling junk for decades.
 

alexgr

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I’ll be tuning into the reveal next week. I hope they give pricing details on the 19th. I’m interested in how pricing will compare to the R1T. I’m evaluating my options to eventually replace my 2003 Ram 1500. I haven’t decided if I want to purchase a new EV pickup next year or hold onto the Model 3 and Ram 1500 for a few more years and get one off the used market.
I'd go with Cybertruck all the way because Tesla makes proven reliable EVs for many years now. I mean the powertrain and software, not panel gaps. Looking at the Mach-E electrical nightmare experience of new happy customers (even though it the Mach-E is potentially an okay CUV) , my mistrust in Ford just grew stronger.
 
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I have a 1997 F-150 that has been very reliable I do not drive it much used for yard cleanup and dump runs. I put gas in it every couple of months and when I see the gas prices I’m very motivated to get an electric truck. What I like about Tesla and Rivian is that you go on your phone and request a service call, they come to your house and fix the problem. Not sure I want to go to the Ford dealership.
 

Cosmacelf

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I'd go with Cybertruck all the way because Tesla makes proven reliable EVs for many years now. I mean the powertrain and software, not panel gaps.

Shouldn't be any panel gaps with the Cybertruck if they just bend steel plates!

I really want to see one of up close, or even better, have Sandy do a body structure teardown.
 
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I have a 1997 F-150 that has been very reliable I do not drive it much used for yard cleanup and dump runs. I put gas in it every couple of months and when I see the gas prices I’m very motivated to get an electric truck. What I like about Tesla and Rivian is that you go on your phone and request a service call, they come to your house and fix the problem. Not sure I want to go to the Ford dealership.
One thing to note. I live ~1.5 hrs from the nearest Tesla service center. They won't always come to my house. I'll have to check the app every couple days and then eventually I'll find availability. The SC guys haven't been able to tell me why, but I'm guessing there's alternating grids they do?

Comparing to Ford, there's two dealers both within 15min of my house. Both give you a loaner for free when you drop a vehicle off for service. One is on my way to work, and takes about 5min to do. I've even had them do body work on my Dodge Ram and they still gave me a hassle free loaner.

It just depends on your circumstances and what you're comfortable with.
Comparing your 97 F150 to a Cybertruck, I'm guessing your F150 weights around 4,200 lbs. I'm guessing the Cybertruck, despite early advertising, will weight double that. Or at least with 2-3 motors and a battery that's capable of having decent range while towing. 8,000 lbs on a lawn is rough.
 

alexgr

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One thing to note. I live ~1.5 hrs from the nearest Tesla service center. They won't always come to my house. I'll have to check the app every couple days and then eventually I'll find availability. The SC guys haven't been able to tell me why, but I'm guessing there's alternating grids they do?

Comparing to Ford, there's two dealers both within 15min of my house. Both give you a loaner for free when you drop a vehicle off for service. One is on my way to work, and takes about 5min to do. I've even had them do body work on my Dodge Ram and they still gave me a hassle free loaner.

It just depends on your circumstances and what you're comfortable with.
Comparing your 97 F150 to a Cybertruck, I'm guessing your F150 weights around 4,200 lbs. I'm guessing the Cybertruck, despite early advertising, will weight double that. Or at least with 2-3 motors and a battery that's capable of having decent range while towing. 8,000 lbs on a lawn is rough.
I have a Tesla SC in 5 minutes from my house. In nearly 2 years I own a Tesla I never visited a SC. Last week I've changed air filters myself, that's about it.

Also, "staple of work fleet" sounds precisely as "cheap junk" to me, sorry. F-150 and pickup trucks are popular because of tens of billions spent on PR campaigns, not because so many people really need pickups. I see people around go broke signing non-affordable loan or lease agreements to only use the bed of the truck to accumulate junk food trash. The macho image of a pickup truck owner is what sells the trucks, not their utility or quality. Also, fleet sales is a smaller fraction of truck sales in the US.
 
I have a Tesla SC in 5 minutes from my house. In nearly 2 years I own a Tesla I never visited a SC. Last week I've changed air filters myself, that's about it.

Also, "staple of work fleet" sounds precisely as "cheap junk" to me, sorry. F-150 and pickup trucks are popular because of tens of billions spent on PR campaigns, not because so many people really need pickups. I see people around go broke signing non-affordable loan or lease agreements to only use the bed of the truck to accumulate junk food trash. The macho image of a pickup truck owner is what sells the trucks, not their utility or quality. Also, fleet sales is a smaller fraction of truck sales in the US.
We were talking about the quality of the truck, not your experience with who purchases them. Anyone could purchase a vehicle they can't afford and fill it up with "junk food trash". That says absolutely nothing about the vehicle...

I wouldn't ever buy a used fleet vehicle. The reason being, they're considered server service usage in most cases. They are truly getting used as they were designed with maxed out GVWs, towing at capacity, high torque/low speed events, rough terrain, etc... The big three all make great, reliable trucks. Fleets would not buy them if they broke often.

I don't know what the market for the Ford Lightning will be. It'll likely be the same market that bought these in the mid 90s (gen 1) and early 2000's (gen 2). It's not a work truck audience. Neither is the Hummer or a Cybertruck. They'll all cost as much as a diesel truck (or more), won't be able to tow >10,000 lbs over 1,000 miles in a day, and will likely weigh more than a diesel truck in the first place. These are vehicles designed to be exciting to drive and give you the capability to toss a few bikes, or dirtbikes, or atv, or lumber in the rear. Nothing wrong with that.

Back to my point, I think it'll be a fine truck in that market, and it's still an ignorant statement to say Ford has been "junk for decades."
 
I'm sceptical how any Pickup EV will be able to tow a payload in colder climates. We all know what happens to range in th cold.

Also there is a basic problem with the current charging infrastructure. Charging stalls haven't been designed for vehicles with a trailer. I can't imagine a pickup pulling into a Electricfied America station in a mall parking lot with a trailer. You would have to drop your trailer somewhere and then charge up. I believe I saw some Superchargers that are drive-through that could allow to charge with a trailer.
 
I'm sceptical how any Pickup EV will be able to tow a payload in colder climates. We all know what happens to range in th cold.

Also there is a basic problem with the current charging infrastructure. Charging stalls haven't been designed for vehicles with a trailer. I can't imagine a pickup pulling into a Electricfied America station in a mall parking lot with a trailer. You would have to drop your trailer somewhere and then charge up. I believe I saw some Superchargers that are drive-through that could allow to charge with a trailer.
This was basically the conversation I had with the SC guy. We commonly tow our 5th wheel camper. It's all too easy to just hit up semi truck stops every 400 miles to refill. Tons of room, no backing up, takes 5 minutes. I wouldn't be opposed to having an electric truck, but it'd have to replace my current completely. I would need a minimum of 300 miles of range while towing (in moderately cold weather), and an infrastructure that allowed me to charge whatever monster of a battery was in that thing in 15-30min without having to disconnect my camper/trailer. I'm guessing the batteries would have to be ~3 times the size of a current Tesla, which means three times the time it takes to charge. I doubt we're going to see tech and infrastructure to charge that fast anytime soon.
 

alexgr

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I'm sceptical how any Pickup EV will be able to tow a payload in colder climates. We all know what happens to range in th cold.

Also there is a basic problem with the current charging infrastructure. Charging stalls haven't been designed for vehicles with a trailer. I can't imagine a pickup pulling into a Electricfied America station in a mall parking lot with a trailer. You would have to drop your trailer somewhere and then charge up. I believe I saw some Superchargers that are drive-through that could allow to charge with a trailer.
I think a larger battery may suffer less range loss due to cold because it can divert a relatively smaller fraction of energy to heating up the battery. But that is just my hypothesis.

Anyway, an ICE truck spends 70%+ of energy stored in fuel to warm up the air. Then, 50% efficiency loss due to towing is only 15% of the overall efficiency (like from 15 mpg to 13 mpg). For an EV truck with 90% battery->motor->wheel efficiency, the 50% loss due to towing is 45% of the overall efficiency (like from 300 mile range to 150 mile range). This is the curse of the EV efficiency.

If a truck can practically tow some 5000 lbs for 120 miles from 80% to 10% SOC in bad weather, I'd consider it a win for EV provided all superchargers have a couple of trailer-friendly stalls. I have seen such stalls at some superchargers, but no more than at maybe 20% supercharger stops. This needs to be changed next year. Good thing Tesla can just add or modify stalls at existing superchargers.
 
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alexgr

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these guys agree
And these guys disagree:
 
D

Doc Brown

Guest
And these guys disagree:
As long as we're relying on Consumer Reports for gauging vehicle reliability . . .


It's clear you have an issue with Ford, generally - and, for some reason, defend Tesla against all other vehicles. It's your prerogative - but for those that are really interested in EVs in general, including new offerings - it really is getting a bit old.
 

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