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Fair AP2 Questions Tesla Inc. Should Answer

Discussion in 'Model S' started by MonseyGuy, Feb 27, 2017.

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  1. MonseyGuy

    MonseyGuy Supporting Member

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    Hi All,

    Perhaps it makes sense to assemble a list of reasonable questions from owners in search of an honest detailed response from Tesla on the AP2 situation.

    Right now it seems clear there exists a lot of misinformation, anxiety, disappointment and upset among many new owners and new members to the Tesla family with the way features in AP2 cars are being rolled out (or not rolled out) including scary videos of FW x.72 release driving which is resulting in horribly embarrassing PR, not to mention embarrassing PR.

    The vacuum of official information is very clearly combustible.

    A couple of lines in release notes or Talmudic deciphering of Elon's tweets is not efficient in disseminating helpful and useful information, much of which will simply calm a lot of frayed nerves.

    So I'll start the list and please add as necessary.


    Hopefully if somebody at Tesla is reading this too, a response can be forthcoming.
    (Unless that is too naïve and Pollyanna-ish of me to expect given the posts I've been reading here and on Tesla's own forum lately...)

    -------------

    Reasonable questions for Tesla Inc.:

    a) What is the true current state of development of the following AP2 items?

    What should be owners' fair expectations?

    On what timeline will each of these be delivered?

    1. Traffic-aware cruise control
    2. Low-Speed Autosteer
    3. Auto high/dimming of headlights
    4. Blind spot detection
    3. Auto emergency braking
    5. Lane departure warning
    6. Auto lane change
    7. Summon
    8. Auto transition to another freeway
    9. Auto freeway exit
    10. Auto wipers
    11. Headlight movement with steering

    (The present (x.72) precarious Auto-Steering performance on local roads --- even those with clear markings --- appears to indicate function is even sub-elementary and is far surpassed by technology already on the road.)

    b) Where can owners obtain detailed authoritative regularly updated information on AP2 features available through updates (more than 1 or 2 brief lines lines in the release notes), or features promised and not yet delivered?

    c) Where can owners obtain a clear list of improvements and additions of updates (again, in addition to the couple of lines in the release notes -- plus many fixes and improvements are not even listed there but stumbled upon by owners) instead of having to go out and hunt for them by trying different features?

    Thank you.
     
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  2. kdday

    kdday Member

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    I understand and would encourage your desire for more transparency and communication - especially with educating customers that are not following forums daily.

    I do think #1, 2 and 11 are already delivered.
     
  3. TexLaw

    TexLaw Member

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    Soon™

    More seriously, I agree that there ought to be some frank answers to those questions, but I also understand that software is a tricky thing. You can't rush it, and you really don't want to in this situation. I've worked with a bunch of software designers and coders, and it's incredibly difficult to estimate timelines. It's like cooking a brisket--it's done when it's done.

    Now, I do want to know that they are working diligently on it, but I'm also fairly confident that they are.
     
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  4. MonseyGuy

    MonseyGuy Supporting Member

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    Re 1 and 2, checkout the recent YouTube videos on auto-steer under FW x.72, and the issues during highway driving with cresting the hill or sharp curves...

    Far from being marked delivered.
     
  5. MonseyGuy

    MonseyGuy Supporting Member

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    I totally agree. Take as long as it needs, but communicate with your customers!
     
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  6. TexLaw

    TexLaw Member

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    Yeah, they need to quit with the PR handling and deflection and just say "we really are working on it. You know that because you are getting releases, and you'll keep getting releases. You really don't want this to come out before it's ready."
     
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  7. MonseyGuy

    MonseyGuy Supporting Member

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    To clarify, no one doubts (well, I can't say no one) most trust that Tesla is working feverishly on this.

    That is beside the point.

    The point is owners and new customers deserve fair answers to fair questions about current status of AP2 FW development and an honest forecast on point by point.

    That is not taking place.

    Every day that passes in silence just adds FUD and gives room and a platform to those that speculate that Tesla SW engineers discovered devastating shortcomings after the MobileEye break up and internally know they can never deliver.

    I sure hope that's not the case!
     
  8. Vitold

    Vitold Active Member

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    These corner cases will be handled once Tesla enables more cameras. I give Tesla three months to bring AP2 to be on par with AP1. I would be really surprised if they done it sooner.
     
  9. MonseyGuy

    MonseyGuy Supporting Member

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    "We are working on it" doesn't cut it.
    Transparency = happy customers.

    Maybe "We are working on it and have encounterd difficulties with (insert item here, i.e. sensor x integration mechanism) and these are the steps we are taking to fix/surmount that. We expect to have resolution within x time (or we don't foresee a resolution and we will refund a portion of your money paid for this feature).
     
  10. MonseyGuy

    MonseyGuy Supporting Member

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    I hope so too!
     
  11. davinci2017

    davinci2017 Member

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    Where can I sign. I agree completely with the OP. Whats worse is that I did not find out about ANY of these until AFTER I bought the car and started searching around on the forums. Thats just not cool.

    Low-speed Auto-steer is VERY VERY twitchy. Mine keeps making minor adjustments constantly even on clearly marked roads and it is not confident at all. In small sections where the lines are slightly faded or the dots are skipped for a turn, the car seems almost confused on what it should do. Far from done for sure.

    You need to add automatic high-beam/low-beam to the list.
     
  12. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    Their communication has been terrible right from day 1 in 2012 . This is no different. I fully agree with you however, and my statement is not meant to exonerate them. The Mobileye breakup was really bad news for us all. That company has years of experience with computer vision, and that is what they do. Now Tesla is trying to play catch up.
     
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  13. MonseyGuy

    MonseyGuy Supporting Member

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    It's #3.

    Even if the magical wand is just around the corner, owners should know about it. I happened to find this forum and from reading posts I figured out to look for morsels in Elon's tweets. This week he seemed to imply about two weeks for incremental improvement in one of the items on the list.
    ("Minor improvements update this weekend. High speed autosteer in about two weeks."

    But nothing about the rest, and owners shouldn't have to go sleuthing like a detective for this information in the first place.

    Look, I love the concept of Tesla like the greatest fanboy and bought one myself. I even encouraged many of my friends to do the same.

    So I'm not here to bash or criticize, only to plead for more information.
     
  14. MonseyGuy

    MonseyGuy Supporting Member

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    Is this method of doing business a "thing" like some kind of new-age theory? Did I miss a fad that seems to have taken hold of their culture?

    Also, has no one ever asked Elon directly ( or any of the high officers) at any of the public events about the paucity of information being disseminated to owners about expectations and features and delays, etc. Seems like should be the first question on everybody's list. It would be on mine!
     
  15. Max*

    Max* Banned

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    You're asking for too much.

    Tesla wont publish their roadmap publicly, because it's bad for business and gives their competitors an advantage.

    That coupled with "we should have it done in a month", only to realize it took 3 months, do you know how many emails/calls they'd get in the delay time? It would be silly for them to publish this info publicly.
     
  16. MonseyGuy

    MonseyGuy Supporting Member

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    Good points, but when I ordered mine it shows December 2016 and the sales rep said February the latest for parity with AP1.

    True, deadlines could be missed when dealing with SW development, I don't think anybody is terribly upset about that and most understand. It is the lack of communication such as "Dear Tesla Owners, thank you for supporting our company, we missed the December 2016 deadline but here is the plan forward..."

    If it wasn't proprietary to print the December 2016 date on the order page, it should be the same to give us a realistic timeline once that was missed.
     
  17. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Updated thread title to more accurately describe topic.
     
  18. LearnedFoot

    LearnedFoot Member

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    I have a friend that worked for Elon's brother Kimball, if Elon is anything like his brother I doubt that Tesla has a roadmap at all. The SOP is to just do whatever pops into the CEO's head each day.
     
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  19. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

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    Looks as though Tesla learned absolutely nothing from its flawed rollout of AP1...
     
  20. Max*

    Max* Banned

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    There was nothing wrong with the 10+ month roll out that was supposed to happen in a "few" months. 10 is still a few, damnit! ;)
     
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