Fair Price for Air B&B L2 Charging?

[Spacep0d]

Hi Teslarati!

My girlfriend rented an Air B&B and it has 240 volt, 50A charging in the garage, untested. It looks like a clean installation with a Powerwall. She won't be heading there until Nov. some time.

Trouble is, the Air B&B owner is estimating a charge cost to be $25 a night (for L2 charging) and wants to charge her $50. Obviously, even the $25 starting price is ludicrous, let alone doubling it. I told her to flip the script on him because she's doing him the favor of testing this untested new outlet, and then he could assess the real cost and built that in to his rental fee later without calling it out (same cost, EV or no EV). This way he doesn't have to police it, ask about one's car, etc.

Here's the question. Anyone know what it costs to charge a Tesla or any EV, let's say, from 20% to 80% or more, with a L2 charger @50amp?

I can't be more than $5 off peak, right?

Any help is appreciated. I want to rip the guy a new one (or give him strict terms in response) but the girlfriend is way too agreeable. I've coached her on how to handle it, but I'd really like some real numbers if possible.

Thanks!

 

[Xenoilphobe]

It's easy, go somewhere else and show him how the competition is handling this. $25 a night is robbery.

 

[jerry33]

The B&B I stay at charges $10 per night for a NEMA 14-50 connection. I actually talked them into putting one in way back in 2013.

 

[jjrandorin]

You would have to assume the person is going to charge on peak (why would a person in an AirBNB only charge off peak?

You would also need to assume the electricity charge is in the top tier (for the owner to assure he isnt losing money on it).

If they are in PGE territory thats likely 50 cents a kWh for peak rate. In SCE territory it probably goes up to mid 40 cent range.

So, take 50 Cents a kWh and assume that someone would charge from almost empty to almost full in an EV.... something like 70 kWh might be a good number to pick, even though model S can go up to 100kWh battery.

70 kWh X 50 cents a kWh = $35. That $25 charge sounds about right.

Lets not start in on "Well of course people will charge during off peak" or "they wont have to charge their batteries full"... because people on vacation or in a rental EV are not going to care about off peak rates, and may be traveling to get there. Knowing they have EV charging in their Air BnB means many of them might arrive at low states of charge.

We also need to assume highest rates, since there is likely not that much conservation going on in an AirBnB.

 

[jjrandorin]

The B&B I stay at charges $10 per night for a NEMA 14-50 connection. I actually talked them into putting one in way back in 2013.

you are in a place that has electricity at 8 cents to 15 cents a kWh. OP is in California.

 

[GZDongles]

Hi Teslarati!

My girlfriend rented an Air B&B and it has 240 volt, 50A charging in the garage, untested. It looks like a clean installation with a Powerwall. She won't be heading there until Nov. some time.

Trouble is, the Air B&B owner is estimating a charge cost to be $25 a night (for L2 charging) and wants to charge her $50. Obviously, even the $25 starting price is ludicrous, let alone doubling it. I told her to flip the script on him because she's doing him the favor of testing this untested new outlet, and then he could assess the real cost and built that in to his rental fee later without calling it out (same cost, EV or no EV). This way he doesn't have to police it, ask about one's car, etc.

Here's the question. Anyone know what it costs to charge a Tesla or any EV, let's say, from 20% to 80% or more, with a L2 charger @50amp?

I can't be more than $5 off peak, right?

Any help is appreciated. I want to rip the guy a new one (or give him strict terms in response) but the girlfriend is way too agreeable. I've coached her on how to handle it, but I'd really like some real numbers if possible.

Thanks!

Where is it located?

In general I'd say 20-80% would be roughly 46 kWh in the car. Factor in charger efficiency and that's about 50 kWh measured at the meter. At $0.15/kWh, that's $7.5. Factor in some payback period for the owners wall connector, electrical work, wiring, etc, would give you somewhere in the neighborhood of $10-15 depending on what sort of payback period they want. If they just want it to be an amenity to attract customers and not have the charger directly pay for itself of course the payback period wouldn't be a factor.

So yes, I think it's safe to say that $25-50 is much too high! I'd offer him $10 and say that that's paying for both the direct costs of the electricity and contributing towards the cost of the charger. That's also bring generous and assuming he doesn't have a great off peak rate.

 

[jjrandorin]

It's easy, go somewhere else and show him how the competition is handling this. $25 a night is robbery.

According to google, Electricity in virginia is also around an average of 11 cents a night. See my other reply about california.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

don't they have offset rates for charging at night? Isn't solar free - it is here in Virginia. I've used the dryer plug at multiple AirBNB's and never been charged anything.. (just bring an extension cord).

 

[jjrandorin]

don't they have offset rates for charging at night? Isn't solar free - it is here in Virginia.

They do have offset rates for charging at night (usually around 15 cents or so) but like I said in my other post, no Air BnB owner should make an assumption that the person renting the location would charge off peak. Why would they? I mean, some might be environmentally conscious, but one shouldnt build their business case around that. One should assume that they will plug in when they get there, whenever that is, and charge at whatever the max speed they can charge at, until their car is full.

If the Air BnB owner wants to ensure they are not losing money on electric charging, and doesnt want to track it, that $25-30 fee sounds about right to me, if the property is in CA and connected to PGE / SDGE / SCE utilities, based on peak TOU rates that many will be under.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Hi Teslarati!

My girlfriend rented an Air B&B and it has 240 volt, 50A charging in the garage, untested. It looks like a clean installation with a Powerwall. She won't be heading there until Nov. some time.

Trouble is, the Air B&B owner is estimating a charge cost to be $25 a night (for L2 charging) and wants to charge her $50. Obviously, even the $25 starting price is ludicrous, let alone doubling it. I told her to flip the script on him because she's doing him the favor of testing this untested new outlet, and then he could assess the real cost and built that in to his rental fee later without calling it out (same cost, EV or no EV). This way he doesn't have to police it, ask about one's car, etc.

Here's the question. Anyone know what it costs to charge a Tesla or any EV, let's say, from 20% to 80% or more, with a L2 charger @50amp?

I can't be more than $5 off peak, right?

Any help is appreciated. I want to rip the guy a new one (or give him strict terms in response) but the girlfriend is way too agreeable. I've coached her on how to handle it, but I'd really like some real numbers if possible.

Thanks!

Worst case scenario on peak high rate sure but otherwise it’s a ripoff. I would cancel this out of principle.

 

[Spacep0d]

Where is it located?

In general I'd say 20-80% would be roughly 46 kWh in the car. Factor in charger efficiency and that's about 50 kWh measured at the meter. At $0.15/kWh, that's $7.5. Factor in some payback period for the owners wall connector, electrical work, wiring, etc, would give you somewhere in the neighborhood of $10-15 depending on what sort of payback period they want. If they just want it to be an amenity to attract customers and not have the charger directly pay for itself of course the payback period wouldn't be a factor.

So yes, I think it's safe to say that $25-50 is much too high! I'd offer him $10 and say that that's paying for both the direct costs of the electricity and contributing towards the cost of the charger. That's also bring generous and assuming he doesn't have a great off peak rate.

This AirBNB is in Southern California.

Also,

His outlet is installed upside-down.

It's a NEMA 14-50 with no EVSE. Most people won't have the right adaptor for this, and many non-Tesla EVs require that EVSE. He just has a NEMA 14-50 plug.

 

[Spacep0d]

Worst case scenario on peak high rate sure but otherwise it’s a ripoff. I would cancel this out of principle.

That's what I said. Or, I would get him to let me charge for free and then cancel if he got belligerent about it. I'm going to email him shortly. My girlfriend doesn't have the $35 NEMA 14-50 adaptor either, so that's extra cost for her. This guy doesn't seem like he knows WTF he's doing despite having a Powerwall in his Air B&B as well.

 

[ElectricIAC]

This Air B&B is in Cambria, California.

Also,

His outlet is installed upside-down.

It's a NEMA 14-50 with no EVSE. Most people won't have the right adaptor for this, and many non-Tesla EVs require that EVSE. He just has a NEMA 14-50 plug.

$25/night and they’re not even providing the EVSE? Brass balls..

 

[Sam1]

even if you were to charge that car up from 0 to 100%, $25 is about 34 cents per kwh. that's 9 cents higher than the superchargers cost. I'd actually cancel the airbnb just on the basis of them trying to screw you over.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

They do have offset rates for charging at night (usually around 15 cents or so) but like I said in my other post, no Air BnB owner should make an assumption that the person renting the location would charge off peak. Why would they? I mean, some might be environmentally conscious, but one shouldnt build their business case around that. One should assume that they will plug in when they get there, whenever that is, and charge at whatever the max speed they can charge at, until their car is full.

If the Air BnB owner wants to ensure they are not losing money on electric charging, and doesnt want to track it, that $25-30 fee sounds about right to me, if the property is in CA and connected to PGE / SDGE / SCE utilities, based on peak TOU rates that many will be under.

Thats true, but didn't the OP say they have a Powerwall? They wouldn't hit the utility until the power wall was expended, then the PW could re-charge at night during lower rates.

PGE sounds like a mess, at least the businesses are figuring it out and leaving.

 

[garrett5688]

Y’all are too cheap.

$25 is absolutely worth the peace of mind and convenience of having a fully charged car in the morning.

Like others said, if it’s not worth it to you, take your business elsewhere

what is the cost and convenience of NOT staying here?

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Y’all are too cheap.

$25 is absolutely worth the peace of mind and convenience of having a fully charged car in the morning.

Thank you, and you are right, I would drive to the supercharger, I hate getting nickel and dime'ed by added service fees, spoiled by FUSC.

 

[Spacep0d]

Y’all are too cheap.

$25 is absolutely worth the peace of mind and convenience of having a fully charged car in the morning.

Like others said, if it’s not worth it to you, take your business elsewhere

what is the cost and convenience of NOT staying here?

I think the real issue is that the owner of said AirBNB doesn't know what he's doing, and I just got off the phone with him. He doesn't have his own EV either. Didn't install an EVSE or know he needed it, but I gave him the lowdown on this to help him out. Even linked him to a nice Chargepoint EVSE which could plug right in to his existing NEMA 14-50 connection.

I think a $10 per night charge is fair, and sure there's some profit built in (convenience). I would never pay $25 for L2 charging. Non-Tesla owners might pay it since their DC-3 options are fewer and farther between and their range would be more depleted on-arrival. My girlfriend still has about 1700 miles of free Supercharging left and 322 miles max range in her LR AWD.

I think what will happen is that this guy will start to get pushback on the EV-charging pricing and will adjust from there, and will realize that the electric costs aren't as high as he might think (even on-peak). I do agree that one must assume 'worst case' charging scenarios with an Airbnb. I recommended he just add a flat rate upcharge per night to cover electric vehicle charging (without calling it out and upsetting ICE vehicle owners)—but it seems he'd rather try to police people on a per-person, per car basis. That to me seems like a lot of work to chase all that down. Plus, someone could say they're driving a Daihatsu and show up in a Bolt. He'd only know differently after-the-fact unless there are cameras in the garage.

Far be it for me to tell him how to set his prices, but at least he'll have a usable charging solution if he follows my advice.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thats true, but didn't the OP say they have a Powerwall? They wouldn't hit the utility until the power wall was expended, then the PW could re-charge at night during lower rates.

PGE sounds like a mess, at least the businesses are figuring it out and leaving.

No one with a powerwall is filling their EV from powerwall power. each powerwall is 13.5kWh of power from 0-100. Its like trying to fill 4 d batteries with 1 double A battery. I have solar + 2 powerwalls so am familiar with how they work.

I just happen to disagree with those who are saying "its a rip off". I showed the general math above. $50 is a rip off, sure, $25? not so much.

Also, having an charging EVSE in the garage would mean he would be shutting out some that didnt have the specific adapter. Teslas before mid 2019 came with the 14-50 adapter and many tesla owners buy it anyway for use at home. the owner "could" put in a generic juicebox or something, but in general if one reads here, people tend to tell people " just put in a 14-50 adapter" so I find the thought that the owner did something "wrong" by putting one in funny.

In Virginia, $25 would be gouging. In california, its not. Its roughly the same cost as what supercharging would cost (in general). I laid out where that OP is likely getting the costs from so they dont have to think about it. It certainly isnt free for them.. even if they have solar the solar install cost them thousands.

Air BnB isnt my thing.. I would never stay in one, wouldnt want my neighbors home to be one, and would likely not buy a home to run as an air bnb. With that being said, for CA, $25 for a night of charging with no limitations is not excessive to me. $50 is though.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Y’all are too cheap.

$25 is absolutely worth the peace of mind and convenience of having a fully charged car in the morning.

Like others said, if it’s not worth it to you, take your business elsewhere

what is the cost and convenience of NOT staying here?

I dunno about you but I personally dislike getting nickel and dimed.